NJ Recalls

[Semore Butts]

Nope. If JH said that, he must have been suffering from low blood flow to the brain.

Hahahahaha!!!!!! Well G4, we almost agree!!!!!

Personally, I thought he drunk called the union president!!!!!!

But, you may be correct on this one!!!!

Take care, Semore

 

[ghostrider64]

Nope. If JH said that, he must have been suffering from low blood flow to the brain.

He isn't. He's following a play book written eons ago. The real question is, how many of these threats must you personally see, before you start understanding the fight at hand, and are willing to get into the trenches?

Too many fence sitters that have it easy today, watching the scene. Reminds me of a history lesson about the crowds of spectators at Bull Run/Manassas for you SAV boys. Apparently they left their partially digested picnic lunches on those same fields, when they realized what war was really about.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Is that even a credible threat? We all know Fractionals make their money selling new shares. Does anyone think canceling deliveries will hurt the pilot group more than the company? Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face!

It is not a credible threat IMHO, for many reasons:
1. Those aircraft orders were negotiated in 2011 and 2012 when no one was buying aircraft and NJ was able to secure steep discounts on the large purchases as a result.I doubt they could replicate those deals in today's economic environment.

2. NJ needs the aircraft to support demand.NJ and FO are both benefitting from the consolidation in the fractional space, with CitationAir and Avantair closing their doors and Flex being acquired by FO, which leaves just two major players left in the space.Demand is up, and NJ has not been able to keep up with demand, as evidenced by the large increase in subcontract costs.

3. NJ is still generating large profits despite the "expensive" pilots contract. NJ has reported profits exceeding $200 million for each of the last three years. While that may not be enough to satisfy Jordan, it is a very good profit and much better than what he would get if he cancels aircraft orders and stops recalling pilots.NJ is in the position now where they make money off of operations.More aircraft = more operations = more profit.

4. Jordan will not want to turn away business and drive people to other providers, which is what he would have to do if he cancelled the aircraft orders and stopped recalling pilots.

5. NJ took a beating last year during the busy season as they were caught behind the curve on demand.Many of those owners called Buffett directly to complain about the degradation in NetJets quality and service.If NJ were to cancel the orders, this would place even more pressure on the existing fleet and lead to another season of discontent.

Jordan wants to shows increases in profitability, which is why he is squeezing the unionized groups, just like he has done to the non unionized employee's pay and benefits, and the vendor community. Take a look at the meltdown in the procurement area if you want some insight into what happens when that is taken too far.That area has experienced over 100% turnover and the costs from the vendors are increasing rapidly.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Mark,

Good to see you out from under that rock.

 

[flagshipper]

NJ exceeded the selloff limit for last quarter so they have to recall 87 pilots by feb 1st. that should get to the bottom of the list.

 

[Hogprint]

Mark,

Good to see you out from under that rock.

No doubt! That was a reasonable well thought out post. Very different tune from nine years ago!

PS
do miss the avatar MO...

 

[FamilyGuy]

No doubt! That was a reasonable well thought out post. Very different tune from nine years ago!

PS
do miss the avatar MO...

I'd like to think that all of my posts have been reasonable and well thought out.

The tone is different as the times and situation are different. Nine years ago people were on here vilifying Santulli, now I see many people wishing he would come back and return the company to its former glory.

What I don't understand is why there was so much emotion nine years ago when we had a CEO who actually cared about the business and strived to be the best in the business, actively advocating a zero defect rate approach. Now we have a CEO who doesn't care about the business, has an open disdain for aviation and the long term employees who built this company, and has analyses done to figure out how much pain they can inflict on the owners before they want to leave. Yet, with all that negativity there is less emotion and outrage on this board than there was nine years ago.

From my perspective, the outrage and negativity that was rampant on this board nine years ago was misplaced and inappropriate at that time, and now when that approach would be appropriate, it is strangely absent. Why were many people so vociferous in their criticism of Santulli nine years ago, yet now with Jordan, who is many times worse, is there so much apathy?

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

Hey this my thread!! You guys have given it great life. We were talking about airplane age. How is that condescending?

Yip, you need to stop saying "this is my thread". This was never your @##@$* thread. You may have started it, but it would have been started regardless and it belongs to the 495, of which I'm a part of.

You have ZERO "ownership" over this thread and would do best to piss off.

No one wants to read your crappy grammar and poorly spelled anti-union/anti-professional pilot (emphasis on the professional part) drivel anyway.

The fact that you don't realize you are being offensive by calling it "your thread", and continuing to post in it regularly when your original stake in it (finding out how soon you would lose the best pilots you have) has long since dried up says it all.

 

[pilotyip]

Yip, you need to stop saying "this is my thread". This was never your @##@$* thread. You may have started it, but it would have been started regardless and it belongs to the 495, of which I'm a part of.

You have ZERO "ownership" over this thread and would do best to piss off.

No one wants to read your crappy grammar and poorly spelled anti-union/anti-professional pilot (emphasis on the professional part) drivel anyway.

The fact that you don't realize you are being offensive by calling it "your thread", and continuing to post in it regularly when your original stake in it (finding out how soon you would lose the best pilots you have) has long since dried up says it all.

Hey I started it is my thread and that is ownership. As stated before thanks for giving it tremendous life. I picked up lots of intelligence on what was going on, keep my NJ furlough friends informed on what was going since the union wouldn't give them the time of day until the recalls started. But that is what friends do, help each other out in time of need. And you don't have to say thanks for what I did to keep bread on their table and roof over their head of 5 of the 495 when NJ kicked them out to the street. They did a good job and I consider them my friends. Yes they were good, but we have better.

BTW: See what a coupel colelge dergees does for speeling and gramar You tkaing this all way to serosuily

 

[BentOver]

YIP sucks......



BTW...sorry you were never able to work for a reputable company... Must feel like the minor leaguer who spends a lifetime in the minors as he watches the better players go pro.

 

[pilotyip]

YIP sucks......



BTW...sorry you were never able to work for a reputable company... Must feel like the minor leaguer who spends a lifetime in the minors as he watches the better players go pro.

Maybe in your eyes, but I am happy with my lot in life and as I posted many times before. I lived my adventure in the Navy for 26 years and nothing will ever equal that experience. I have been truly lucky and if the tooth fairy came along and said, "If you give up your Navy career, I will guarantee you a job in the MAJOR leagues at Delta for life". I would say "No deal". I may be a minor leaguer in yours and other eyes and that is fine with me I am a very happy minor leaguer. I am sorry you seem so unhappy and hope you someday find the happiness that I have found.

BTW again thanks for keeping this thread going, I throw some worms in the water and you guys strike like hungry bass.

 

[fischman]

I'd like to think that all of my posts have been reasonable and well thought out.



The tone is different as the times and situation are different. Nine years ago people were on here vilifying Santulli, now I see many people wishing he would come back and return the company to its former glory.



What I don't understand is why there was so much emotion nine years ago when we had a CEO who actually cared about the business and strived to be the best in the business, actively advocating a zero defect rate approach. Now we have a CEO who doesn't care about the business, has an open disdain for aviation and the long term employees who built this company, and has analyses done to figure out how much pain they can inflict on the owners before they want to leave. Yet, with all that negativity there is less emotion and outrage on this board than there was nine years ago.



From my perspective, the outrage and negativity that was rampant on this board nine years ago was misplaced and inappropriate at that time, and now when that approach would be appropriate, it is strangely absent. Why were many people so vociferous in their criticism of Santulli nine years ago, yet now with Jordan, who is many times worse, is there so much apathy?

The company has a strict social media policy now. I advise caution and discretion.

 

[Hogprint]

I'd like to think that all of my posts have been reasonable and well thought out.

The tone is different as the times and situation are different. Nine years ago people were on here vilifying Santulli, now I see many people wishing he would come back and return the company to its former glory.

What I don't understand is why there was so much emotion nine years ago when we had a CEO who actually cared about the business and strived to be the best in the business, actively advocating a zero defect rate approach. Now we have a CEO who doesn't care about the business, has an open disdain for aviation and the long term employees who built this company, and has analyses done to figure out how much pain they can inflict on the owners before they want to leave. Yet, with all that negativity there is less emotion and outrage on this board than there was nine years ago.

From my perspective, the outrage and negativity that was rampant on this board nine years ago was misplaced and inappropriate at that time, and now when that approach would be appropriate, it is strangely absent. Why were many people so vociferous in their criticism of Santulli nine years ago, yet now with Jordan, who is many times worse, is there so much apathy?

Good points and I'll add my .02 FWIW...

I think the attitude toward RS at the time was the effect of a perfect storm brewing. Inaction by 284, corruption by Powell, and machinations from RS that seemed to orchestrate all this from behind the green curtain. Real or not that was the perception. Perception has a way of becoming reality. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't seems apt here. If we knew what we were going to get then maybe...?

I would offer that we (arguably) have matured as a union (recall withstanding), and if we were at that maturation level then, it probably would have been more to your liking. Remember we had a huge influx of pilots with no union experience so many were getting their sea-legs and learning as we went along. Add to that mix the influx of savvy union leaders coming from the airlines then I think you can map the course that was taken.

I like yourself have wondered why so many are apathetic now. I will lay blame on the recall first and foremost. There are fissures in this group because of that short sighted blunder that will be hard to heal without dynamic leadership.

The good news is that the ship seems to have someone at the helm now (union) and I'm hearing news that folks at Bridgeway are starting to row in unison( some in mangament). I think everyone can see the damage that has been done and if we don't start working together this place could end up a mess.

I look forward to working with all to make this a better place and I'm glad to have you advocating on our side.

 

[jegermeister]

Why were many people so vociferous in their criticism of Santulli nine years ago, yet now with Jordan, who is many times worse, is there so much apathy?

Nine years ago the pilot group was young (read- could start over), were paid a fraction of what they make now, and have since watched 495 of their fellow pilots get sent off into a financial abyss.

In a nutshell they have more to lose today than nine years ago.

 

[fischman]

This is not discretion. You guys are not being smart. Shut your traps before you make a bad situation worse.

 

[BentOver]

YIP sucks



Wow so this is what it feels like to have nothing original to say and just repeat the same things over and over.....

 

[pilotyip]

Wow so this is what it feels like to have nothing original to say and just repeat the same things over and over.....

yea no one else would ever think of doing that like Y iP sucks

 

[Hawker dude]

I'd like to think that all of my posts have been reasonable and well thought out.

The tone is different as the times and situation are different. Nine years ago people were on here vilifying Santulli, now I see many people wishing he would come back and return the company to its former glory.

What I don't understand is why there was so much emotion nine years ago when we had a CEO who actually cared about the business and strived to be the best in the business, actively advocating a zero defect rate approach. Now we have a CEO who doesn't care about the business, has an open disdain for aviation and the long term employees who built this company, and has analyses done to figure out how much pain they can inflict on the owners before they want to leave. Yet, with all that negativity there is less emotion and outrage on this board than there was nine years ago.

From my perspective, the outrage and negativity that was rampant on this board nine years ago was misplaced and inappropriate at that time, and now when that approach would be appropriate, it is strangely absent. Why were many people so vociferous in their criticism of Santulli nine years ago, yet now with Jordan, who is many times worse, is there so much apathy?

Too many old guys now. They don't give a ******************** or their memory is shot.

 

[gunfyter]

We are way better off than we were 9 years ago... as far as work rules and compensation ... so the discontent was not misplaced.

But why do I want Santulli back? Hey we won those battles with him ... now I want someone here that knows how to provide a luxury service I can be proud of being part of. Not sending letters to customers saying we are switching to Dasani from Fiji water to better serve you.

 

[T-1GUY]

Speaking of letter writing, how many letters of apology went out last fall? This fall they could save some time by creating a form letter:


We are sorry your flight: (Please check a box)

a) Didn't show up, I have no idea what is going on.

b) Showed up but broke due to a maintenance issue.

c) Didn't show due to lack of a qualified crew.


In the future, we will: (Please check a box)

a) Promise to send the General to apologize in person.

b) Extend your contract to a 48 hour show up clause.

c) Have a cold bottle of Dasani waiting on board, er Fiji when the flight finally arrives.


Please accept this token of appreciation in lieu of an on-time jet.
(Please check a box)

a) Free bag with ********************ty plastic wheels.

b) Coupon for a free frozen turkey.

c) Free Netjets hat.


Sincerely,

Jordan (Because I care) Hansell