NEWSFLASH: Log just 30 HRS airplane time and anyone can fly an airliner!

[Turtlesfly]

OK, I will get involved . . .

by saying "F*CK THAT!!!!"

 

[Palerider957]

Is there something outside of the ALPA magazine that outlines this program???? Please someone tell me this is a nightmare.

I'm out of the industry, but this scares the living $hit out of me. I can't imagine putting my family on an airliner flown by this level of pilot.

Someone please provide some alternate sources.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Is there something outside of the ALPA magazine that outlines this program???? Please someone tell me this is a nightmare.

I'm out of the industry, but this scares the living $hit out of me. I can't imagine putting my family on an airliner flown by this level of pilot.

Someone please provide some alternate sources.

ICAO.

Yeah.... they won't stand up like those strong union regionals..... Just watch Mesa, PCL, ASA, CHQ, etc.... Get real, it will get crammed down everyones throat, just some of us will pay 2% for the privledge of having it shoved down our throat....

ALPA didn't even come out against it.......

C'mon Joe... you are going to have to do better than that. Incoherent tirades from a ineffective bitter ALPA rep isn't clear debate...

your absolutely right the last thing management wants to do is raise pay. The thing your missing is that management isnt afraid of ALPA, they have been spanking the unions for six years with no signs of change. The thing that scares them is not being able to attract new pilots.

No signs of change? How about the NWA LOA? Do you think Oberstar will listen?

Pay and work rules will improve but not because of ALPA

What about the NWA LOA?

or any other union but from lack of new people willing to do this job as a profession.

Doesn't seem to be a problem there...

You slam colgan and skywest but at least they get to keep there 2 percent.

I mention Colgan, SKW and blue cause what are they going to do...

ALPA can use its political resources to at least make the program safer.... One thing ALPA will have to fight is the arguement of... well there seems to be no problem at SKW, Colgan or blue.... whats the problem?

 

[Vne]

You can whine on this message boards about how you think it should be and declare that MPL's "just ain't right and they are all that is wrong in this world" or you can get involved...

Some one said it is all about the Benjamins... well the real question is..how many Bennies do you give to support your profession....

I feel sorry for the Colgan pilots and Skywest pilots... they will get this crammed into their world all while the duct tape is secure about their faces...

Good God man , all you ever do is invite people to attend the pep rally.

What the hell is National going to do to STOP the this MPL program dead in its tracks?. Scream "more dues paying involved members!"
ALPA is way past the "you must get involved to make a deference" reality.

At ALPA's house the basement has been burning for the past 10 years plus,along with the attic, and all I hear is "grab a hose and head for the first floor! we need more firemen!"

STFU and FIGHT THE FIRE your organization has already been paid............jezzz .......
ALPA PAC you say...right the only thing they been packing is their and my congress mans wallets....
rant over

 

[John Pennekamp]

ALPA will do the same thing with this controversy that they did with age 65. "We can either oppose it and have no say, or we can join the process and shape the outcome". That will now be their refrain to any issue that they want to cram down our throats because they know we're too weak to oppose it, but won't admit that.

 

[jumppilot]

The MCPL will probably probably result in an accident due to the simple fact that 30 hours isn't enough time to get a good feel for the person.

What you can't train for, only experience, is fear. How is this 30 hour wonder going to react when he flies through a thunderstorm or has an emergency?

At least when you have 500-1000 hours you've s*it yourself a time or two and demonstrated you won't go psycho in the cockpit.

I just don't get it. There are some things that simply just require experience. Flying an airliner is one of them.

 

[inthegoo]

dont touch anything FNG

Is there something outside of the ALPA magazine that outlines this program????
Someone please provide some alternate sources.

Do the google search "MPL airplane" and you will get alternate sources, heck the first one is Boeing's own training program,

http://www.alteontraining.com/firstofficer/mpl.aspx?id=3

I am glad I am leaving this industry in just 19 days, and if MPL comes true, I will be doing alot of road trips with my family,

I will try to drive under as few airways as possible.

-Goo

 

[ualdriver]

MPL cost?

I'm curious as to how much this new program would cost the individual if this is adapted in the US vs. just getting your ratings the "old fashioned" way. I mean for 50 grand, including housing, you can go to a pilot puppy mill like All ATP's and get all of your ratings outside of your PPL. And there are surely cheaper ways than that to obtain all those ratings. Unless this path provides a significant cost savings, I'm not sure it will make much sense in the US, at least now anyways. What does a "high fidelity" simulator cost per hour, even if divided by two students? If a student can get all his ratings for 50K and a MPL program costs 50K, which path is the student going to choose? What if the MPL program is 40K? 30K?

Further, it would HAVE TO cost significantly less than the present ways that lead to the right seat of a regional jet (for example) as the perceived shortage in the US is simply management induced. I suspect if managements at regionals like Mesa or TSA offered a living wage for a regional FO commensurate with the responsibilites said FO takes to task as the crewmember of a multi-million dollar piece of company capital (40K/yr anyone for starters?), not only would the "pilot shortage" be greatly reduced, but we might see an increase in the flight school/military pipeline. If all I can expect is 20K/year for the first few years of my career (or maybe less for longer periods of time because I'm "only" a MPL pilot and therefore cannot command as high a wage as a "regular" pilot), and this program is going to cost a guy tens of thousands out of his pocket in training costs, aren't we in the same position we are in now, anyway (i.e. high initial training costs with low pay)?

 

[wmuflyguy]

Doesn't a full motion sim rent for like $400+ an hour, not including the instructor?

Seems to me a duchess is still cheaper at 200 an hour.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Quote-more professional pilots with less experience.

Isn't this an oxymoron?


Quote-Why practice crosswind landings when they cost $10 a pop?

"So I won't have to take the controls from one of these jokes every time he/she tries to kill me and my passengers!"

Real simple guys/girls- refuse to fly with one....

 

[AvroJockey]

IMHO ALPA should be installing hiring minimums in collective bargaining agreements. If there were minimums of say, 2000TT/800ME, it would decrease the supply of qualifiied pilots, and raise the median wage rate.

This is what I've been say all along:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1111259#post1111259

I'm telling you...ALPA needs to do their job, and start controlling the labor supply!!! The MPL will happen unless ALPA does something, other than write articles about it!!!

People...your wage rate is a result of economics!!!! Until ALPA realizes the greater importance of this, our wages will continue to fall. The MPL needs to be stopped, because it will only get worse. The MPL is only one step away from the single pilot flight deck.

Believe me, economics works! I finally went to work in Ireland; because of the good demand and poor supply of 146/Avro captains in Europe, I'm compensated more than any other Legacy narrow-bodied captain in the US. In fact one company, FlyBE (British European), is offering 100,000 quid per year (over 200,000 USD) to skipper a 146. This is all without a union!

Imagine what ALPA could do if they controlled the labor supply in the US!!! Doctors, lawyers, real estate appraisers...they all get paid well because they have associations that control the labor supply!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Read the article folks..... ALPA didn't even oppose the idea! They simply want to have a say in how it is implemented.

"Schedule with Safety".... my A$$!

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Avro Jockey's right! Too many lawyers and the bar get's tougher to pass. Doctors control their respective fields by allowing fewer people into med schools.

That being said if EVERYONE refuses too fly with these people - IT cannot happen.

 

[bizjet800]

I'm curious as to how much this new program would cost the individual if this is adapted in the US vs. just getting your ratings the "old fashioned" way. I mean for 50 grand, including housing, you can go to a pilot puppy mill like All ATP's and get all of your ratings outside of your PPL. And there are surely cheaper ways than that to obtain all those ratings. Unless this path provides a significant cost savings, I'm not sure it will make much sense in the US, at least now anyways. What does a "high fidelity" simulator cost per hour, even if divided by two students? If a student can get all his ratings for 50K and a MPL program costs 50K, which path is the student going to choose? What if the MPL program is 40K? 30K?

Further, it would HAVE TO cost significantly less than the present ways that lead to the right seat of a regional jet (for example) as the perceived shortage in the US is simply management induced. I suspect if managements at regionals like Mesa or TSA offered a living wage for a regional FO commensurate with the responsibilites said FO takes to task as the crewmember of a multi-million dollar piece of company capital (40K/yr anyone for starters?), not only would the "pilot shortage" be greatly reduced, but we might see an increase in the flight school/military pipeline. If all I can expect is 20K/year for the first few years of my career (or maybe less for longer periods of time because I'm "only" a MPL pilot and therefore cannot command as high a wage as a "regular" pilot), and this program is going to cost a guy tens of thousands out of his pocket in training costs, aren't we in the same position we are in now, anyway (i.e. high initial training costs with low pay)?

It looks like someone did their economics homework! It's hard to believe that most people in management, not just airlines, actually believe the path to prosperity is cheap labor. What they don't tell you in US schools is that sooner or later, all of these low paid pilots, and everyone else in the soon-to-be low paid world, will barely be able to afford that $10 Skybus ticket! This sounds just like all of those arguments that despise Wal-Mart!

Great comments UAL Driver!