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30 hours and they can fly an airliner? Not on my plane. No unrestriced commercial multi engine rating no touchie the controls, even the gear. I hope ALPA stands up against this
 
Did you read the end of the article? ALPA admits this could work if done correctly..... ALPA is a joke! This shouldn't see the light of day.... the current requirements are too low.....

ALPA thinks this could be done if it is done properly.... what do you ALPA cheerleaders think about that?
 
JoeMerchant said:
Did you read the end of the article? ALPA admits this could work if done correctly..... ALPA is a joke! This shouldn't see the light of day.... the current requirements are too low.....

ALPA thinks this could be done if it is done properly.... what do you ALPA cheerleaders think about that?
Click to expand...

Joe, you moron, why don't you actually call Captain Rice and ask him what ALPA's position on this is? Paul has been working on this issue for well over a year, and I can assure you that ALPA isn't happy with the program. Before you get all worked up, actually make a phone call and get the real info.
 
If user fees become a reality in the US, so will the MPL. User fees lead to more costly flight training. Higher cost flight training leads to more professional pilots with less experience. Why practice crosswind landings when they cost $10 a pop? The idea is to get bodies into seats as quickly (and cheaply) as possible and use the more experienced CA as a teacher and mentor.

Bottom Line - User fees will hurt not just GA but also the airlines. Write your congressperson!​
 
Mins for airline FO in transport category aircraft should be an Airline Transport Pilot certificate. This 30 hour thing is worthy of an SOS.

If this somehow does come to fruition, watch your backs wonder punks, you WILL get written up, early and often.
 
All I can say to that is OMG! The training department has a hard eneugh time getting guys with 600 hours of flight time qualified in the jet. Now they want to teach everything from visuals to radio calls in a simulator?

"The holder of an MPL will not be able to exercise the
privileges of a private pilot unless he or she separately completes the licensing requirements for the private pilot certificate."

Even the creator of this crap doesn't think the applicant will be qualified eneugh to fly a 152. How the hell are they supposed to fly 121?

I gave my 1000 hours of dual as a CFI if I have to give instruction for the rest of my life... I'll just quit now. Not to mention if you think your pay is low now, wait till an airline can replace you with any guy off the street. I wonder what the general public thinks of this idea? I get eneugh crap for being to young to fly a plane after 8 years of exp. I can't imagine the public going for this idea.

I got a better idea than this one. Lets just take some high school graduate who bought a ticket on the flight and give him half his money back if he will work the leg. They can work it just like they do when they try to buy back overbooked flights.​
 
You can emotionally respond to this or you can get educated to understand... the choice is yours... ALPA has been monitoring this and has made information on it available to all its members... If you are just now getting informed.... great.... but you're about a year behind.....
 
inthegoo said:
Of course they will upgrade, and probably as soon as possible, scary!

-Goo
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Well, I'm not sure I see how this can be. They don't have any type of "real" pilot certificate. ie: They can't act as PIC of anything, much less a 121 transport aircraft. To do this, you obviously need an ATP, and there are requirements in there they won't be able to meet (ie: PIC time).
 
Ladies and Gentlemen, I use those loosely, welcome aboard Atlanta Air. Your copilot today has never flown a real airplane, so she'll be getting some practice with me watching. Hope you enjoy the $29.00 ride. You'll get your money's worth I promise.

As a matter of fact, the mechanic who MEL'd the thrust reverser is a rookie and probably did it wrong. Our dispatcher just graduated from a school in sunny Florida, and has planned for us to takeoff and land on closed runways. Plus, our tug driver can't speak English, but no matter, our headsets don't work anyway. Finally, catering never showed up so there is no ice. I'm on my sixth day having been extended, I just want to get home, but scheduling has been outsourced to Mexico. They didn't have work there so this will take some getting used to.

Good news is Delta has a new CEO, his bonus is 200 million dollars, so the airplane isn't exactly clean today. Volunteer night was canceled due to the big announcement.

Thanks for flying U KNOW WHOOO.
 
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Did I forget the co told me she is a gymnast? I think I'll be gettin nekid tontie weeeeeee!!!!
 
We can bitch all we want, including ALPA, and it won't ammount to a fart in the wind. The only thing that matters in the indstry is the Benjamins. And the only hope we have at stopping this nightmare is for the insurance underwriters, who will have to shell out 2 Mil/coffin when one of thses guys screws up, to say "HELL NO!" Let's hope they have the sence to inject some sanity in this scenario.
 
The way I read it is it's an ICAO program. That doesn't apply unless the FAA decides to adopt it. The FAA would have to go through the whole NPRM thing and create a whole new set of FAR's for this program. That would take a few years.
ICAO often creates programs like this which are utilized by smaller countries that don't have their own seperate aviation governing body.

And as far as the user fee thing goes; it might be a good thing for us. If it's significantly more expensive to learn to fly, then there will be fewer new commercial pilots out there to take the low paying jobs and we will be able to demand higher salaries.
 
The FAA's "Pinch Hitter" program hits the big leagues!
 
This is already being implemeneted in Austrailia. It will be fine tuned and made applicalble to the US.

All of this is being done on the political level.... The last thing management wants to do is raise the wages and work rules...so they come up with schemes like this....

You can whine on this message boards about how you think it should be and declare that MPL's "just ain't right and they are all that is wrong in this world" or you can get involved...

Some one said it is all about the Benjamins... well the real question is..how many Bennies do you give to support your profession....

I feel sorry for the Colgan pilots and Skywest pilots... they will get this crammed into thier world all while the duct tape is secure about thier faces...
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
This is already being implemeneted in Austrailia. It will be fine tuned and made applicalble to the US.

All of this is being done on the political level.... The last thing management wants to do is raise the wages and work rules...so they come up with schemes like this....

You can whine on this message boards about how you think it should be and declare that MPL's "just ain't right and they are all that is wrong in this world" or you can get involved...

Some one said it is all about the Benjamins... well the real question is..how many Bennies do you give to support your profession....

I feel sorry for the Colgan pilots and Skywest pilots... they will get this crammed into thier world all while the duct tape is secure about thier faces...
Click to expand...

your absolutely right the last thing management wants to do is raise pay. The thing your missing is that management isnt afraid of ALPA, they have been spanking the unions for six years with no signs of change. The thing that scares them is not being able to attract new pilots.

Pay and work rules will improve but not because of ALPA or any other union but from lack of new people willing to do this job as a profession. You slam colgan and skywest but at least they get to keep there 2 percent.
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
This is already being implemeneted in Austrailia. It will be fine tuned and made applicalble to the US.

All of this is being done on the political level.... The last thing management wants to do is raise the wages and work rules...so they come up with schemes like this....

You can whine on this message boards about how you think it should be and declare that MPL's "just ain't right and they are all that is wrong in this world" or you can get involved...

Some one said it is all about the Benjamins... well the real question is..how many Bennies do you give to support your profession....

I feel sorry for the Colgan pilots and Skywest pilots... they will get this crammed into thier world all while the duct tape is secure about thier faces...[/quote]

Yeah.... they won't stand up like those strong union regionals..... Just watch Mesa, PCL, ASA, CHQ, etc.... Get real, it will get crammed down everyones throat, just some of us will pay 2% for the privledge of having it shoved down our throat....

ALPA didn't even come out against it.......
Click to expand...
 
Is there something outside of the ALPA magazine that outlines this program???? Please someone tell me this is a nightmare.

I'm out of the industry, but this scares the living $hit out of me. I can't imagine putting my family on an airliner flown by this level of pilot.

Someone please provide some alternate sources.
 
Palerider957 said:
Is there something outside of the ALPA magazine that outlines this program???? Please someone tell me this is a nightmare.

I'm out of the industry, but this scares the living $hit out of me. I can't imagine putting my family on an airliner flown by this level of pilot.

Someone please provide some alternate sources.
Click to expand...

ICAO.

Yeah.... they won't stand up like those strong union regionals..... Just watch Mesa, PCL, ASA, CHQ, etc.... Get real, it will get crammed down everyones throat, just some of us will pay 2% for the privledge of having it shoved down our throat....

ALPA didn't even come out against it.......
Click to expand...

C'mon Joe... you are going to have to do better than that. Incoherent tirades from a ineffective bitter ALPA rep isn't clear debate...


your absolutely right the last thing management wants to do is raise pay. The thing your missing is that management isnt afraid of ALPA, they have been spanking the unions for six years with no signs of change. The thing that scares them is not being able to attract new pilots.
Click to expand...

No signs of change? How about the NWA LOA? Do you think Oberstar will listen?

Pay and work rules will improve but not because of ALPA
Click to expand...

What about the NWA LOA?

or any other union but from lack of new people willing to do this job as a profession.
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem to be a problem there...

You slam colgan and skywest but at least they get to keep there 2 percent.
Click to expand...

I mention Colgan, SKW and blue cause what are they going to do...

ALPA can use its political resources to at least make the program safer.... One thing ALPA will have to fight is the arguement of... well there seems to be no problem at SKW, Colgan or blue.... whats the problem?
 
You can whine on this message boards about how you think it should be and declare that MPL's "just ain't right and they are all that is wrong in this world" or you can get involved...

Some one said it is all about the Benjamins... well the real question is..how many Bennies do you give to support your profession....

I feel sorry for the Colgan pilots and Skywest pilots... they will get this crammed into their world all while the duct tape is secure about their faces...
Click to expand...

Good God man , all you ever do is invite people to attend the pep rally.

What the hell is National going to do to STOP the this MPL program dead in its tracks?. Scream "more dues paying involved members!"
ALPA is way past the "you must get involved to make a deference" reality.

At ALPA's house the basement has been burning for the past 10 years plus,along with the attic, and all I hear is "grab a hose and head for the first floor! we need more firemen!"

STFU and FIGHT THE FIRE your organization has already been paid............jezzz .......
ALPA PAC you say...right the only thing they been packing is their and my congress mans wallets....
rant over
 
ALPA will do the same thing with this controversy that they did with age 65. "We can either oppose it and have no say, or we can join the process and shape the outcome". That will now be their refrain to any issue that they want to cram down our throats because they know we're too weak to oppose it, but won't admit that.
 
The MCPL will probably probably result in an accident due to the simple fact that 30 hours isn't enough time to get a good feel for the person.

What you can't train for, only experience, is fear. How is this 30 hour wonder going to react when he flies through a thunderstorm or has an emergency?

At least when you have 500-1000 hours you've s*it yourself a time or two and demonstrated you won't go psycho in the cockpit.

I just don't get it. There are some things that simply just require experience. Flying an airliner is one of them.
 
dont touch anything FNG

Palerider957 said:
Is there something outside of the ALPA magazine that outlines this program????
Someone please provide some alternate sources.
Click to expand...

Do the google search "MPL airplane" and you will get alternate sources, heck the first one is Boeing's own training program,

http://www.alteontraining.com/firstofficer/mpl.aspx?id=3

I am glad I am leaving this industry in just 19 days, and if MPL comes true, I will be doing alot of road trips with my family,

I will try to drive under as few airways as possible.

-Goo
 
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MPL cost?

I'm curious as to how much this new program would cost the individual if this is adapted in the US vs. just getting your ratings the "old fashioned" way. I mean for 50 grand, including housing, you can go to a pilot puppy mill like All ATP's and get all of your ratings outside of your PPL. And there are surely cheaper ways than that to obtain all those ratings. Unless this path provides a significant cost savings, I'm not sure it will make much sense in the US, at least now anyways. What does a "high fidelity" simulator cost per hour, even if divided by two students? If a student can get all his ratings for 50K and a MPL program costs 50K, which path is the student going to choose? What if the MPL program is 40K? 30K?

Further, it would HAVE TO cost significantly less than the present ways that lead to the right seat of a regional jet (for example) as the perceived shortage in the US is simply management induced. I suspect if managements at regionals like Mesa or TSA offered a living wage for a regional FO commensurate with the responsibilites said FO takes to task as the crewmember of a multi-million dollar piece of company capital (40K/yr anyone for starters?), not only would the "pilot shortage" be greatly reduced, but we might see an increase in the flight school/military pipeline. If all I can expect is 20K/year for the first few years of my career (or maybe less for longer periods of time because I'm "only" a MPL pilot and therefore cannot command as high a wage as a "regular" pilot), and this program is going to cost a guy tens of thousands out of his pocket in training costs, aren't we in the same position we are in now, anyway (i.e. high initial training costs with low pay)?
 
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Doesn't a full motion sim rent for like $400+ an hour, not including the instructor?

Seems to me a duchess is still cheaper at 200 an hour.
 
Quote-more professional pilots with less experience.

Isn't this an oxymoron?


Quote-Why practice crosswind landings when they cost $10 a pop?

"So I won't have to take the controls from one of these jokes every time he/she tries to kill me and my passengers!"

Real simple guys/girls- refuse to fly with one....
 
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