New Pinnacle Management team

[Flyer1015]

Sounds like you would of rather see me lose my job with a 100% pay cut then you have to take any pay cut. Not going to happen the TA passed. At least you know a pay cut is coming so start planning for it. Or you can vote any concessionary contract down, hold the line for the industry and take a 100% pay cut. You don't have to vote it in. But I would imagine all the big talkers of Shut it Down will dwindle now that your house is under attack.

I've never understood this line of thought. Just how much in paycuts are you willing to take to keep your operation going? How much is too much? I hear the word "currency" fly around so much makes me think some would do this job for free just to be current when applying to other airlines. Yesterday you voted in paycuts with a 85% yes. What happens tomorrow when Delta wholly owns you and says they need another 10% or the flying will be farmed out to another regional and 9E shuts down?

 

[JumpersAway]

Waylon, I get what you're saying. However, if Delta thinks they can leverage my costs to their liking, they are wrong. I will simply go somewhere else, and Delta can scramble to fill the 1600 pilots needed to fill ExpressJet's void. Between UAL, AA, and USAirways feeders, I'd land on my feet regardless. Delta can figure it out, and I'm sure they will- it just won't be with me and a new wage at 75% of what I am making now. Frankly, I'd be ok with becoming a feeder for AA/USAirways and severing the DAL ties.

I'm still hoping that management at ExpressJet will work WITH the pilots, rather than against them, to figure this out. Find the money somewhere else, because it will not be coming from me!

 

[jynxyjericho]

First off JumpersAway this is just business. Everyday in our own lives we do exactly what Delta just did to PCL. Let's say you want to buy a new vehicle you go to one dealer and the price of the car you want to buy is 15K. You go to another dealer and they are willing to sell the exact same car for 14500. A savings to you of 500. Maybe the first dealer pays their work force more than the second one and gives them better benefits, do you care? Most people do not they just want to keep as much of there money as possible. That is exactly what Delta did to us at PCL. If we were not willing to deal they would of taken their business somewhere else. We do the same maneuver in each of our personal lives, it's just business. Delta's loyalty is to there stock holders not anybody else's.

Yes he kind of knows that he was happy to see us stand on principal for the profession. We didn't because principal doesn't pay the mortgage. We have to live in the real world, and the real world says pilots aren't worth very much because there are a lot of guys who will work for less than us. Even after the TA, there are still companies who work for less than us.

I'm sorry we couldn't do better for everyone, but we got hammered and we lost. Sometimes we lose, and we're going to have to shake it off. Luckily sky west is worth more than the staples in the staplers. We were not.

 

[JumpersAway]

Oh you don't have to say you worked for pinnacle but it helps so much to say that you worked for ASA. Tallest midget argument again. Your at a regional!

ASA/ExpressJet has no special clout within this industry. However, I'm just happy not to be associated with the largest industry wage anchor in the regional airline sector.

 

[Flyer1015]

Yes he kind of knows that he was happy to see us stand on principal for the profession. We didn't because principal doesn't pay the mortgage. We have to live in the real world, and the real world says pilots aren't worth very much because there are a lot of guys who will work for less than us. Even after the TA, there are still companies who work for less than us.

I'm sorry we couldn't do better for everyone, but we got hammered and we lost. Sometimes we lose, and we're going to have to shake it off. Luckily sky west is worth more than the staples in the staplers. We were not.

It's a regional airline job, it isn't that worth it. What happens when Delta figures next to threaten just enough paycuts that you can only pay your mortgage and food bills. You'd pass it saying principles don't pay a mortgage? Just how much is too much? Where is the line drawn? Heck, Delta could have said all FOs topped at 30/HR and all CAs topped at 60/HR and you would have passed it. Maybe not 85% but at least 51% which is all Delta needs. I bet they are kicking themselves that 85% passed it and that they should have asked for more.

 

[jynxyjericho]

It's a regional airline job, it isn't that worth it. What happens when Delta figures next to threaten just enough paycuts that you can only pay your mortgage and food bills. You'd pass it saying principles don't pay a mortgage? Just how much is too much? Where is the line drawn? Heck, Delta could have said all FOs topped at 30/HR and all CAs topped at 60/HR and you would have passed it. Maybe not 85% but at least 51% which is all Delta needs. I bet they are kicking themselves that 85% passed it and that they should have asked for more.

You are asking me to triumph the fact that our union (ALPA) negotiators made the company give us more than what we would actually would have accepted? No problem Bingo.

As for made up scenarios, what if Delta gets such a hard on for Pinnacle the give us the soon to be announced space tourism division?

 

[gojo]

You are asking me to triumph the fact that our union (ALPA) negotiators made the company give us more than what we would actually would have accepted? No problem Bingo.

As for made up scenarios, what if Delta gets such a hard on for Pinnacle the give us the soon to be announced space tourism division?

Plain English please

 

[SEVEN]

Plain English please

+1
For the record, I did vote no.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Sorry, on the tablet and was in a hurry. Barely understood my own post there.

 

[DoinTime]

Yes he kind of knows that he was happy to see us stand on principal for the profession. We didn't because principal doesn't pay the mortgage.

Every Scab who has ever scabbed has used the same "I have to pay my mortgage" justification. This wasn't an issue of crossing a picket line and every pilot had a choice from legitimate options in this matter but spare us from the you have to pay your mortgage bit. The fact that the threat of job loss pushed so many pinnacle pilots to compromise their principles is an ominous sign for the future of this profession.

 

[1.3XVso]

Every Scab who has ever scabbed has used the same "I have to pay my mortgage" justification. This wasn't an issue of crossing a picket line and every pilot had a choice from legitimate options in this matter but spare us from the you have to pay your mortgage bit. The fact that the threat of job loss pushed so many pinnacle pilots to compromise their principles is an ominous sign for the future of this profession.

+2000 thank you!

 

[mesaba13]

Regional airlines are not a career. You are scab because you took mainline flying. Why are your airlines not refusing to take comairs planes on principle?

 

[JumpersAway]

Firstly- the term "Scab" is used for the worst of offenders; an individual that crosses the picket line at a striking airline. Pinnacle pilots are not scabs, nor are Mesa pilots, or even GoJet pilots.

We've taken some of the airframes here at XJT, but we've also taken many of their pilots. A movement by our union to drop probationary pay for them was underway, but it was scuttled because we now have to compete with an abysmally cheap airline that is now the new Pinnacle.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Every Scab who has ever scabbed has used the same "I have to pay my mortgage" justification. This wasn't an issue of crossing a picket line and every pilot had a choice from legitimate options in this matter but spare us from the you have to pay your mortgage bit. The fact that the threat of job loss pushed so many pinnacle pilots to compromise their principles is an ominous sign for the future of this profession.

We aren't scabs, and although you kinda sorta worked back that horrible relation in the rest of your paragraph, I thought I'd reinforce your own point because you so purposefully obscured it. It's bad writing, though clever in a mean way. Show me a pilot group that hasn't taken a hit in bankruptcy, even Mesaba is a bad example because we couldn't get all our money right away, we had to take them in snapbacks with a small consolation prize of a payout because stupid MAIR double dipped and the judge called them on it.

Grow up, the choice was shutdown or don't and 85% of us said don't. The negotiators did a good job of getting more than the second ask and that's with a company that wasn't worth anything. When an insolvent company goes into bankruptcy all sides take a hit, that's the way it is in America. We weren't in section 6, we got a terrible agreement compared to JCBA. There's good news though, because we negotiated that JCBA a year prior even though pilots flying at Republic, Mesa, Whisky, GoJet's, Compass, XJT, a few others with no one walking off the job, so you'll have a shot as well. Furthermore, years before when Mesaba battled with MAIR (who had hundreds of millions in the bank), we were able to get our concessionary rates which were still above that entire list previously described and add to it Pinnacle and Colgan. Pilots are able to negotiate better rates when their company has success and a checking account that isn't worth -$40,000,000 the next time the bank notes are due.

Seriously, if you are that concerned about your section 6's coming up, and you're obviously not, go talk to your contract negotiating teams. If they are really as uniformed as you then talk to some the Mesaba guys who got both our contracts through, I can pass along some phone numbers. If that doesn't appeal to you ALPA runs some classes and there's a world of help available to you. Our rates will factor into your negotiations, certainly, but when viewed against an economic reality that Pinnacle was going to be shut down for lack of solvency it won't weigh much. Plus, our TA will still help bring a couple pilot group's total compensation and if that is done in a timely fashion you'll be in a good spot. Section 6 isn't a cake walk, but it's worse with lazy uniformed pilots, so educate yourself a bit by talking to people who the work.

+2000 thank you!

Way to bring it kid, it's not so much the +2000 but the exclamation point at the end of your sentence in cheer for someone doing all the speaking and thinking for you that makes me respect your opinion.

I'm serious, don't think too hard, you'll hurt yourself. There's no OJI protection yet for the mental midget class. Someday...

Regional airlines are not a career. You are scab because you took mainline flying. Why are your airlines not refusing to take comairs planes on principle?

No one is a scab, it's just a shock jock attempt at swaying hearts and minds. You see, when someone has all these facts in the way it's best cut right through it and to appeal to emotion. Never mind all the anger that their new scapegoat isn't quite so lame as they hoped, so remember there's going to be some irrational built up anger laying in wait.

We've taken some of the airframes here at XJT, but we've also taken many of their pilots. A movement by our union to drop probationary pay for them was underway, but it was scuttled because we now have to compete with an abysmally cheap airline that is now the new Pinnacle.

So you were OK with it until we joined the ranks of the concessionary rates again? Never mind our contract is still worth more than the likes of GoJet's and Republic? Someone's going to have to break out a chalk board for me, because this isn't adding up.

 

[mesaba13]

Wow, probabtionary pay, Big deal. Again why did your union not stand up and refuse to take our airframes on these principles you hold so dear?