New Orleans... very sad

[larryiah]

It's called putting all of your eggs in one basket. He stretched us too thin with an unnecessary and unjustified war that has killed 2000 of our boys. There are few troops available and even fewer who want to go after three tours in Iraq. Can you blame them?


Its bad when the woman Governor of Louisiana, the Mayor of New Orleans, Sheppard Smith, the Mayor of Grand Isle, Bill O'Reilly, and even Jessee Jackson appear to be stronger leaders.

Bush is an idiot, and it was just a matter of time until a situation such as this haunted him.

 

[wrxpilot]

I just got finished watching Scarborough Country on MSNBC and REPUBLICAN Joe Scarborough was disgusted at the Bush administration for the lack of aid. He was pissed and blaming Bush. Can you believe that? He was sickened by the people starving to death for no reason.
Jet

It truly is amazing. It's as if we don't have a leader... I was watching some scenes in NOLA last night and suddenly a chill went down my spine. The scenes I was watching were not some 3rd world country - It was a MAJOR American city!

It Bush to blame for the hurricane? Of course not. But he among many others dropped the ball big time. I blame the local leaders for not getting the evac notice out earlier - it became VERY clear that an extremely dangerous hurricane was headed near NOLA by sat morning. Why was the evac notice not given until Sunday?

After the hurricane hit, the feds needed to get in there. WTH was FEMA doing? Where was the national guard? Everyone waited until looting went completely out of control and the thugs had heavily armed themselves. Things are so bad now that last night the police were down the defending their police station. WTF? This is happening in the US?? Are our "leaders" to busy covering their ass before making a move? We are living in difficult times, and we need effective leadership. Sick of these people!!!

 

[I.P. Freley]

People are starving to death.

People are "starving to death" in FOUR DAYS?? I don't think so, jet. Humans can live on water alone for well over four WEEKS. People are hungry, sure. The already sick are possibly dying from lack of medication and proper medical care... The healthy are obviously going to GET sick from the deplorable conditions... But otherwise healthy people are not dropping dead from starvation in under a week.

I agree, this is now officially taking too long. Those people need food and drink, and I'm starting to get really annoyed that it's taking this long (even though I understand the logistical nightmares involved).

 

[jarhead]

This guy is on tartget

September 2, 2005
A Can't-Do Government
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Before 9/11 the Federal Emergency Management Agency listed the three most likely catastrophic disasters facing America: a terrorist attack on New York, a major earthquake in San Francisco and a hurricane strike on New Orleans. "The New Orleans hurricane scenario," The Houston Chronicle wrote in December 2001, "may be the deadliest of all." It described a potential catastrophe very much like the one now happening.

So why were New Orleans and the nation so unprepared? After 9/11, hard questions were deferred in the name of national unity, then buried under a thick coat of whitewash. This time, we need accountability.

First question: Why have aid and security taken so long to arrive? Katrina hit five days ago - and it was already clear by last Friday that Katrina could do immense damage along the Gulf Coast. Yet the response you'd expect from an advanced country never happened. Thousands of Americans are dead or dying, not because they refused to evacuate, but because they were too poor or too sick to get out without help - and help wasn't provided. Many have yet to receive any help at all.

There will and should be many questions about the response of state and local governments; in particular, couldn't they have done more to help the poor and sick escape? But the evidence points, above all, to a stunning lack of both preparation and urgency in the federal government's response.

Even military resources in the right place weren't ordered into action. "On Wednesday," said an editorial in The Sun Herald in Biloxi, Miss., "reporters listening to horrific stories of death and survival at the Biloxi Junior High School shelter looked north across Irish Hill Road and saw Air Force personnel playing basketball and performing calisthenics. Playing basketball and performing calisthenics!"

Maybe administration officials believed that the local National Guard could keep order and deliver relief. But many members of the National Guard and much of its equipment - including high-water vehicles - are in Iraq. "The National Guard needs that equipment back home to support the homeland security mission," a Louisiana Guard officer told reporters several weeks ago.

Second question: Why wasn't more preventive action taken? After 2003 the Army Corps of Engineers sharply slowed its flood-control work, including work on sinking levees. "The corps," an Editor and Publisher article says, citing a series of articles in The Times-Picayune in New Orleans, "never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security - coming at the same time as federal tax cuts - was the reason for the strain."

In 2002 the corps' chief resigned, reportedly under threat of being fired, after he criticized the administration's proposed cuts in the corps' budget, including flood-control spending.

Third question: Did the Bush administration destroy FEMA's effectiveness? The administration has, by all accounts, treated the emergency management agency like an unwanted stepchild, leading to a mass exodus of experienced professionals.

Last year James Lee Witt, who won bipartisan praise for his leadership of the agency during the Clinton years, said at a Congressional hearing: "I am extremely concerned that the ability of our nation to prepare for and respond to disasters has been sharply eroded. I hear from emergency managers, local and state leaders, and first responders nearly every day that the FEMA they knew and worked well with has now disappeared."

I don't think this is a simple tale of incompetence. The reason the military wasn't rushed in to help along the Gulf Coast is, I believe, the same reason nothing was done to stop looting after the fall of Baghdad. Flood control was neglected for the same reason our troops in Iraq didn't get adequate armor.

At a fundamental level, I'd argue, our current leaders just aren't serious about some of the essential functions of government. They like waging war, but they don't like providing security, rescuing those in need or spending on preventive measures. And they never, ever ask for shared sacrifice.

Yesterday Mr. Bush made an utterly fantastic claim: that nobody expected the breach of the levees. In fact, there had been repeated warnings about exactly that risk.

So America, once famous for its can-do attitude, now has a can't-do government that makes excuses instead of doing its job. And while it makes those excuses, Americans are dying.

 

[jarhead]

People are "starving to death" in FOUR DAYS?? I don't think so, jet. Humans can live on water alone for well over four WEEKS. People are hungry, sure. The already sick are possibly dying from lack of medication and proper medical care... The healthy are obviously going to GET sick from the deplorable conditions... But otherwise healthy people are not dropping dead from starvation in under a week.

I agree, this is now officially taking too long. Those people need food and drink, and I'm starting to get really annoyed that it's taking this long (even though I understand the logistical nightmares involved).

Are you really that thick headed? People ARE starving to death in New Orleans. Little 3 and 4 week old infants with no baby formula have starved to death. The corpses of some are on the floor in the Super Dome. The bodies of elderly men and women are rotting on the overpasses by the Super Dome. For you to blithely state with some sort of false intellect that people can live for 3 to 4 weeks without food seems to address only those who are fit, young and healthy to start with. And then you go on to imply that all they really need is water to survive in the short time. CLUE HERE…..they don’t have water either.

Do you have any clue at all as to the dietary needs of a diabetic? They MUST have carefully controlled nutritional intake to avoid going into diabetic induced shock, not to mention insulin that needs to be refrigerated.

Pregnant Women are going into labor, and no help for days now. This is nightmare disaster for sure, but the awful response by those whose job it is to respond is just as bad as the disaster itself. There will be an accounting and a day of reconning for these fools running this bad comedy of errors

Then there are those who were in the hospitals for various reasons before Katrina ever hit. Even they have had no effective relief from those in government responsible for such functions. What part of this preamble to the U.S. constitution do you disagree with as being a stated function of our government?

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America”.


Then you, in your infinite wisdom declare that it has NOW, officially taken too long. What hubris!

This whole response by The Department of Homeland Security, FEMA, and the administration is the most bungled effort imaginable. And this to a disaster that was seen coming. These are the same people who are going to respond to help when the next terror attack occurs on our soil without a warning. God help us all; were going to need it as the fools running this ship, from the top down are inept beyond description. The head of FEMA gets on TV every other hour or so and proclaims, “Were working hard” and “its hard work”. He sounds just like his boss GWB in one of his debate performances when he parroted over and over “It’s hard work”. People expect results in national disasters, not pronouncements of how hard the work is. Results are expected, and lacking that there is no purpose for them to be at the helm.

 

[wrxpilot]

Yesterday Mr. Bush made an utterly fantastic claim: that nobody expected the breach of the levees. In fact, there had been repeated warnings about exactly that risk.

Did he really say that?? My God, there's been article detailing exactly what is happening now YEARS AGO!! On the weatherunderground blog one of the chief meteorologists was pleading for people to get out of NOLA on Fri/Sat for exactly this reason!! This is disgusting.

 

[wrxpilot]

Well said Jarhead. This is shocking and angering to the point of nausea. I hear that Keesler AFB is or was even being targeted by looters. There's is so much **** going on with this, there is no excuse for ignorance. Heads need to roll.

 

[macfly]

I think it might be a little early to start pointing fingers, but heck this is a forum so why not speculate.

I am getting a little tired of hearing about the poor that didnt get out of NO. Too poor to buy a bus ticket last weekend? BS. These people did not heed the warning to get the hell out of dodge and they are paying for it in spades. They blew it off thinking 'It will not happen to me' and got burned. I feel for ya, but maybe you ought to listen next time, I bet they will next time.

My heart truly goes out to the sick and disabled, they could not leave even if they wanted. Thats the real tradegy folks.

The good news is that if we have any terrorist cells inside the US, I bet we will see them act now since katrina has already kicked us in the nads, hence the terror alert level increase. If the terrriorist act, we can destroy them. If terrorists cannot muster an attack now, then we truly have cut off the head of the snake.

These groups asking for money, HAHAHA! You got mine when you bent me over for my income taxes. Im sorry our federal government gives billions away to foreign nations.

But hey, the whole country of austrailia gave 8 million for the relief fund. That 8 million will make all the difference, thanks again. If you ever have a tsunami hit, we will be sure to send you a few john deere tractors to help you rebuild.

 

[jarhead]

These groups asking for money, HAHAHA! You got mine when you bent me over for my income taxes. Im sorry our federal government gives billions away to foreign nations.

Yes, it's now over 200 billion for Iraq and counting. It's so nice that we can spend to rebuild their infrastructure......you know, the one we destroyed with our own bombs. But, better to put our money in Iraq than into our own infrastructure that failed in Louisiana.....right?

 

[VampyreGTX]

I am getting a little tired of hearing about the poor that didnt get out of NO. Too poor to buy a bus ticket last weekend? BS. These people did not heed the warning to get the hell out of dodge and they are paying for it in spades. They blew it off thinking 'It will not happen to me' and got burned. I feel for ya, but maybe you ought to listen next time, I bet they will next time.

Actually, the warning to evacuate didn't come till early Sunday. less than 24 hours before the storm hit. Saturday, the storm was still only a cat 1-2, and not really expected to get above a 3 at the most. The rapid intensification of over 75mph in wind strength and mb drop of almost 50 in less than 12 hours was almost unheard of as well. People went to sleep Saturday, expecting a cat 1-2 storm, which many have lived through previously multiple times and NO was capable of withstanding. When they woke up, it was a cat 4 monster and growing to a cat 5. Even then, the usual case was the much cooler waters near the coase weaken most gulf storms prior to landfall. This time, most of the coast was at record water temps. The only thing that weakend the storm before landfall was a band of extremely dry air that hit the storm from the west, weakning it considerably. I actually watched the air interact with the storm and you could see the convective activity on the west side start to fall apart and weaken. This was highly visible on the water vapor satelite feeds.

Plane tickets out, the few that were left, were running in excess of $1,000. Busses were also sold out, train service was maxed. You have a city with a area wide population of about 1.2 million with .5 million in the city proper and you expect everyone to be able to get out? Not even chicago's public transit terminals and capacities can handle half a million at a time. There was even reports that some people were not aware there was even a hurrican out in the gulf. I'd have to say that of the people that stayed behind 50-75% truly has no means to get out. I've been to NO multiple times, I have seen the poverty myself, almost 30% of families there are below the poverty line, one of the worst levels in the country.

And as for blowing it off. They interviewed one lady in biloxi that rode it out and luckily the family survived. They evacuated for dennis, and nothing happened. The 4 days in texas, transportation, food, etc. cost them $1,700 for a family of 4 and they didn't have the money this time, only a few months later to evacuate.

 

[wrxpilot]

I am getting a little tired of hearing about the poor that didnt get out of NO. Too poor to buy a bus ticket last weekend? BS. These people did not heed the warning to get the hell out of dodge and they are paying for it in spades. They blew it off thinking 'It will not happen to me' and got burned. I feel for ya, but maybe you ought to listen next time, I bet they will next time.

Fine, let's just leave them to die then. They didn't get out so **** them. Pull your head out of your *** and see what's happening!!

 

[I.P. Freley]

Are you really that thick headed? People ARE starving to death in New Orleans. Little 3 and 4 week old infants with no baby formula have starved to death. The corpses of some are on the floor in the Super Dome. The bodies of elderly men and women are rotting on the overpasses by the Super Dome. For you to blithely state with some sort of false intellect....etc., etc., etc...

Jarhead, as usual, you are just about as interesting to read as, say, a Krugman column. You spout off about how outrageous and stupid right-wing media types are, and then you quote at length from the Rush Limbaugh of Liberal columnists.

I get it, I get it, I get it... GWB is responsible. The Republicans are responsible. FOR EVERYTHING. This country is going to **** in a handbasket and it's all their fault. Everyone in the Republican-dominated government knew ahead of time that NO was going to take a hit and they did nothing about it. The science of hurricane forecasting has never claimed a major storm was about to wipe out a population center and then that population center barely got rain, so every doom-and-gloom report was absolutely above reproach and the city of NO should have been evacuated by force. 100,000 Marines should've been waiting 50mi north to stop the looters that they knew were going to run rampant in the city (and the Gulf coast), but they couldn't, since GWB is gleefully getting them all killed overseas. If we weren't in Iraq, all those troops would be handing out daisies in a dry NO. Hey, maybe GWB is doing all this because he doesn't like people who are, as Wolf Blitzer said, "So poor, so black".

I would go on, but even you get the idea. I can see every one of your pithy little arguments coming a mile away. Amazing how this administration is responsible for absolutely EVERY wrong. Your arguments were old a year ago and aren't getting any more fresh.

I may be thick-headed, but at least I can read. I said "otherwise healthy people are not dropping dead of starvation". Your post paints a picture of hundreds of people lying about dead all over the place, all of starvation. If, in fact, there are dead babies strewn across overpasses and sporting arenas, is it possible that they died of some other cause than starvation in 100hrs? Have a handful of people died of starvation, the already desperately ill and the very young? I'm sure they have. Is it the largest concern in NO right now? Are there going to be stacks of bodies by week's end because thousands have died of starvation? Not by a long shot. The real problem is not grumbling in the stomach, it's the cesspool that these people are wading through or floating on and the lack of medicine for those who currently depend upon them. What they need is WATER and to get the **** out of there, especially the infirm and those in hospital who are more susceptible to shortages of water, medicine, and yes, food.

I know you're always quick to jump down my throat on any point whatsoever, but are you enough of a fool to not recognize my point that there aren't funeral pyres of hundreds of dead who got that way because they STARVED in a period of time that doesn't even encompass a regular work week? Apparently you are.

After skimming the rest of your drivel I got your other point, that of course I am somehow not "feeling" enough for the people of NO. Of COURSE you would say that... Standard leftie maneuver, that one, if you don't agree in whole with every claim of horror in NO, you are an unfeeling Republican. No surprise. It's completely unbelievable that anyone would raise an eyebrow in disbelief or question a point that lapses into hyperbole, right?

But then again, you probably don't recognize what I'm talking about, as it's the staple of half your posts, if not more.

 

[macfly]

jarhead - Its obvious that you dont agree with the war and thats fine, you are certainly not alone. Using the war as a reason things arent going well in the gulf is a spin and you know it. Iraq is not our only national expense. Nice try though, if your flying career does not work out, you might have a future at CNN.

 

[macfly]

Fine, let's just leave them to die then. They didn't get out so **** them. Pull your head out of your *** and see what's happening!!

/sigh yes I want them to pay for their stupity, we should suspend all rescue operations so we can teach them a lesson.

/sigh

 

[JimNtexas]

It's clear that a month ago President Bush should have declared New Orleans "District of Columbia 2" and just taken the place over.

Seeing that the entire city and state chain of command are Democrats it was oblivious that there was no way they could be expected to take care of themselves for even a day in any sort of emergency.

I have it on good authority that in the weeks before the hurricane Bush never once called the Mayor of NO and warned him that the city might need a hurricane plan of some kind beyond going on TV and blaming somebody else.

It's Bush's fault for trusting Democrats to be able to govern themselves.

 

[jarhead]

jarhead - Its obvious that you dont agree with the war and thats fine, you are certainly not alone. Using the war as a reason things arent going well in the gulf is a spin and you know it. Iraq is not our only national expense. Nice try though, if your flying career does not work out, you might have a future at CNN.

Don't worry about my flying career working out macfly. I'm 65 years old and have been retired for several years now.

I am not alone in the assessment that this war in Iraq has drained our resources of men, equipment, and money to the breaking point. Why are there no Federal troops or adequate guard with convoys of vehicles providing food, water and medicine to the victims, and why has such an inadequate response to getting people out of those areas devastated? I notice that the press seems to be able to get in and out with their camera's and portable generators. The area in and around downtown N.O. does have busses leaving with people. Just too few and way too late. So it is possible to get people moved out....just not enough resources to get the job run, and an extreme incompetence at the highest levels of government.

God help us if we have these folks in charge if a terror attack comes without warning and to an unknown place. We knew exactly where this disaster would hit, and we knew when well in advance, yet look at how ineffective FEMA and Homeland Security have responded. It's shameful and a national disgrace.

 

[macfly]

Jim brings up a good point...

The mayor was complaining that he was getting school buses for rescue transportation instead of greyhound buses.

Which one was in his original evac plan, or did he have one?

Looks like the city was not prepared and is now blaming national rescue services for thier lack of foresight.

 

[wrxpilot]

/sigh yes I want them to pay for their stupity, we should suspend all rescue operations so we can teach them a lesson.

/sigh

Thank you, your sarcasm or "/sigh" is duly noted. I don't know why more people did not leave for a CAT 5. But this is the situation now and it needs to be dealt with. It could just as easily have been an earthquake with no warning. That's what scares me... A catastrophe met w/ another catastrophe. The blame is not on any one person's shoulders. This was screwed up by everybody except the meteorologists that were begging the local government and citizens to evacuate.

 

[macfly]

Thank you, your sarcasm or "/sigh" is duly noted. I don't know why more people did not leave for a CAT 5. But this is the situation now and it needs to be dealt with. It could just as easily have been an earthquake with no warning. That's what scares me... A catastrophe met w/ another catastrophe. The blame is not on any one person's shoulders. This was screwed up by everybody except the meteorologists that were begging the local government and citizens to evacuate.

well said...

I wonder if those 2000lb sand bags are working. Good news is that the weather looks good for the next couple of days.

Just heard that a 8 mile long rescue convoy is right outside NO. 600 national guards should be there shortly.

 

[jarhead]

Jim brings up a good point...

The mayor was complaining that he was getting school buses for rescue transportation instead of greyhound buses.

Which one was in his original evac plan, or did he have one?

Looks like the city was not prepared and is now blaming national rescue services for thier lack of foresight.

It's important for you to protect and deflect criticism of the federal authorities and the administration, isn't it? Not Bushes fault. He didn't cause this. The blame has to be put on the mayor of that large city. You have your heroes to protect no matter how badly they screwed the pooch.

You may have totally missed the point the mayor was making, but I think you intentionally misrepresented his plea. He was not implying that he needed more luxury in buses like a Greyhound over a school bus. He was pleading that it is not enough for the scope of this calamity. They need far more transport than they have available. Do you believe that all the school buses were spared from being wrecked by flood waters? For gods sake, just look at the pictures taken all over that state with trucks and cars totally submerged, no electricity to pump gasoline even if they had vehicles, and water up to the second floors of buildings. I just cannot understand the denial some people have, and how they want to blame the victim, and deflect any criticism of federal authority.