New Mesaba Deadline

[CWASaab]

I've still never understood why the reciprocal agreement was never reciprocated. Anyone know why?

I'll tell you why. Its because the pilots at 9E are not interested in helping out the Mesaba pilots. At least not if it means losing any seniority.

This issue has been hashed on this board before, back when 9E was first coming to MSP and Mesaba furloughed pilots. 9E pilots did then exactly what redflyer65 just did, they decided to hide behind the technical triggers of the LOA.

They hid behind the language and ignored the intent, imho. Its not likely they are going to behave any differently now, and its a shame: they missed a chance to show NWA what brand unity could have been like.

I realize that 9E pilots probably don't share that opinion. But honestly, I am sick of hearing them say the situation is different, and they have no obligation. And its true that they don't.

But keep in mind there was no requirement, no obligation for the Mesaba pilots to step up to the plate in 1997. They did anyway.

For what it is worth, I am one of the handful of pilots who was 'harmed' the worst by the deal Mesaba and Express1 worked out. I was hired before any of the 9E pilots were on property at Mesaba, but they all had seniority numbers higher than mine. Despite this I think my former coworkers made the correct decision when they voted to approve the deal, and am I proud to have worked with a group of pilots who were altruistic enough to do the right thing.

During the last time this was an issue, 9E's idea of reciprocation was to arrange interviews for the furloughed XJ pilots. None interviewed (Comair and others with more to offer were hiring at the time) and the 9E MEC apparently was miffed that their preferred interview offer wasn't used.

Bottom line, if the reciprocal actions of the LOA are ever activated it will be desipte the 9E pilots, not because of them.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

they missed a chance to show NWA what brand unity could have been like.

I feel your pain, man. And you CWA/RHI-types have gotten hosed pretty badly over the years.

Now let's see if we can't fix that unity problem. . .

 

[DoinTime]

So here is my flame. Commuting back to MSP had a 9E guy sittin next to me. He asked me why I didn't just jump ship to them. So I told him about how we gave Express a deal when they were transfered out of Minne. Many of us were hoping that 9E would do the same. Why didn't 9E set up a LOA like that when we were downsizing and you all were growing. The Karma sure didn't come around on that one.

I just wanted to hear 9E's side of the story. It sure seemed to be pushed under the rug by our MEC.

The reactivation of this LOA was discussed a few years ago and ALL parties (even Wychor) agreed that it did not apply to the situation at hand. In fact like circumstances had been discussed a couple years earlier then that when XJ moved Avro's into MEM and further decimated our Saab and Jetstream fleets.

The closest we have come to a situation that fit the wording and intent of the LOA 21 was when 9E handed over the 11 B model Saabs about four years ago. 9E did not pursue activation of this LOA for obvious reasons.

Its not like this was a real sweetheart of a deal anyway. A limited number of captains got a 3:1 date of hire integration (2:1 if they were qualified in the equipment they were being transferred into) and FO's got a staple job.

If the situation arises where 9E gets delivery of a larger class of aircraft in the future and the Avro's are out of service I do believe we may have something that applies to the intent of the LOA.

I realize that 9E pilots probably don't share that opinion. But honestly, I am sick of hearing them say the situation is different, and they have no obligation. And its true that they don't.

If you believe it to be true that 9E has no obligation to XJ under the terms of this LOA why are you so bent out of shape about it? Or is this just another opportunity to bash 9E pilots, an activity you seem to relish so much. What was that you were saying about brand unity?

But keep in mind there was no requirement, no obligation for the Mesaba pilots to step up to the plate in 1997. They did anyway.

Mesaba management was the driving force behind getting this LOA pushed through. They needed trained pilots....fast. Both MEC's were lukewarm to the proposition.

 

[Detroitpilot22]

No thanks to Pinnacle... I'd take commuting to Indy or Columbus and work for Shuttle America long before considering Pinnacle...

and we thank you for that!

 

[xjgearbtch]

A 3:1 ratio would be fine by me. 6 years equals two. sure why not it's better than the bottom of mesa(BA). We did lose a ton of SAABs and there was how many frickin times the Avro's were being taken off line. We have been reduced. I'm not blaming anyone I just hope we remember the Company playbook/history and not let them use it to their advantage, next time. It does seem that the MEC's tabled it, oh well hindsight is always 20/20.

It's a poor situation that the union will never fix. I never did see an investment by ALPA, for the brand unity.

 

[redflyer65]

There is no hiding behind anything. These are the facts...

Has Mesaba lost an entire base? NO

Has Mesaba lost >50% of their fleet? NO

 

[WMUSIGPI]

and we thank you for that!

No problem.

 

[Spinn555]

There is no hiding behind anything. These are the facts...

Has Mesaba lost an entire base? NO

Has Mesaba lost >50% of their fleet? NO

Has Mesaba closed bases...YES!...RHI, CWA, CVG, and MEM Avro

50% of the fleet gone? YES! Mesaba had 99 aircraft at one point. Soon to be only 49 saabs.


Redflyer, your are 0-2.

 

[AvroJockey]

There is no hiding behind anything. These are the facts...

Has Mesaba lost an entire base? NO

Has Mesaba lost >50% of their fleet? NO

Well, actually, at the time we lost 2 bases (CWA and RHI). Last year, we lost CVG, and we are just about to loose the Avro MEM base.

So we have lost 3.5 domiciles and about 40% of our fleet (with more to come)...seems to be pretty close, and I don't see your pilot group wanting to scratch our backs anytime soon!

 

[rhino3040]

I hope for the best for all Mesaba guys, it sucks that many friends of mine are losing there jobs. Godspeed

 

[xjhawk]

back and forth you go....i think the unions will figure it out, since they know the contracts better than you two,,,,seriously, why make the rift between mesaba and pinnacle evn worse......goes to show you how ALPA runs its game. ALPA allows its members to hate one another just as the managements want.

 

[DoinTime]

Well, actually, at the time we lost 2 bases (CWA and RHI). Last year, we lost CVG, and we are just about to loose the Avro MEM base.

Outstation domiciles are notoriously unstable regardless of what airline you fly for. There was once a time when almost all Express I pilots were based in outstations. Guess what??? They all got closed, almost 40 of them. Thats just part of the buisness.

Elimination of certain fleet types will also result in pilots being discplaced. Not only is the MEM Avro domicile closing but shortly thereafter MSP and DTW Avro domiciles will close as well. A sad fact of this industry.


I dont think anyone doubts the hardships currently being felt by the Mesaba pilot group. The circumstances of these hardships though bear very little resemblence to those that gave rise to LOA 21. This is evident even in an uneducated read of the agreement. Paragraph "G" of LOA 21 was never intended to be a revolving door between our two pilot groups.

 

[redflyer65]

Spinn, You are comparing RHI and CWA to a complete HUB closing?

Ok, whatever.

 

[Crizz]

Spinn, You are comparing RHI and CWA to a complete HUB closing?

Ok, whatever.

So, CVG and MEM dont count?

Its no secret the mainstream 9E pilot group lacks class. Carry on...

 

[DoinTime]

So, CVG and MEM dont count?

CVG was an outstation and the XJ MEM pilot domicile will not be closing any time soon.