New Job... F9-Frontier

[727C47]

good on you sluggo !

 

[stillflyn]

In my opinion, this is not a sinking ship at all. We may be in shark infested waters at the moment, but we are not sinking. It would take a lot higher losses per quarter to get us into bankruptcy this year. The load factor is up, the rasm is up, casm(ex fuel) is down. Though not to be taken lightly, fuel is the only wrench in our system.

Our biggest threat would probably be a merger/buy-out and we'll see if that plays out or not...

Just man your battle stations and keep your eye on the ball......

What makes F9 attractive for a merger? (except for stock that is trading below $3.00 a share) Why would another airline invest in F9 when all it really has for assets is aircraft and future aircraft orders? By merging with F9 you now end up with a money loosing enterprise that is involved in a price war with United and Southwest.

If an airline wanted F9's assets wouldn't it be smarter to wait until they file ch. 7 and then buy the aircraft and future aircraft orders? This would alleviate the messy seniority integration of two labor
groups. If F9 is already selling aircraft, a company might not have to wait for ch. 7 to start picking up their assets.

On a personal note.... I have a few friends at Frontier and hate to see them in this situation.

Stillflyn

 

[USMC319]

If an airline wanted F9's assets wouldn't it be smarter to wait until they file ch. 7 and then buy the aircraft and future aircraft orders?
Stillflyn

When exactly is this going to happen? Got a date? When can United and SWA execute on their business plan to move into the A concourse at DEN? What you fail to understand is that Frontier and the whole airline industry are fluid in their strategies and tactics and health for that matter. If Frontier held their course without change it would be easier for you to write their obituary, but they are on the move. Who knows if Frontier or any other airline will be here long term, but to say they are not valuable or do not stand a chance of suvival is both naive and presumptious. At least F9 is pursuing a strategy going forward to make it on their own merits, not depending on a merger or acquisition as their only plan for success in the future like the current UAL, Delta, and NWA plans.

Furthermore, it looks as if you have left F9 for greener pastures and in a sick sort of way would take some joy in seeing F9 fail so that it would validate your decision to leave. Well don't hold your breath. Frontier has a superb product, excellent employees, new airplanes and equipment, and hopefully now...a plan for the future. Most importantly they have the desire to succeed against the odds, not unlike the scrappy SWA of 20 years ago. We will see.

 

[StaySeated]

Couple thoughts. To say that fuel is our only problem is very myopic. Fuel is a major issue, but not the only problem and not the biggest money loser at this airline. Failure in leadership is the biggest problem here. Spending over $30 million and counting to start a w/o sub and losing $5 million a quarter on that subsidiary is unacceptable. Failing to market anywhere outside your only hub is unacceptable. Starting cities, stopping cities, starting the same cities again, unacceptable. These are all controllable and manageable issues, unfortunately they have been managed into the debacle that we have found ourselves in today.

We are an airline, yet we are selling AIRPLANES because we can't produce a profit with those pieces of equipment. To think that is not defcon five is totally burying your head in the sand. When our cash position is so low that the ceo and cfo are adding the value of other assets to add some shine the turd then you really have serious problems.

As stated above, this airline is really a hidden gem with regard to people and qol, but we have some major, major problems. Shrinking to profitability has been tried probably a few dozen times. It has NEVER worked.

With regard to the merger/acquisition or liquidation comment. The buyout before any liquidation makes more sense due to the fact that you are assuming only one entity would be interested in the assets after liquidation. The lessor would get market value (if not higher) on any airbus narrow body due to the fact that orders are filled through 2013. Todays market cap plus a premium on the shares would not clear a profit if you bought and then sold everything off, but you wouldn't have to worry about someone else running up the price. Additionally, the stock is trading at an all time low, making the shareholders pretty desperate. The premium would not have to be very high to get the required number of people to sell.

Who knows what will happen. All I know is that the path that brought us here began well before oil ran up to $100 a barrel.

 

[stillflyn]

When exactly is this going to happen? Got a date? When can United and SWA execute on their business plan to move into the A concourse at DEN? What you fail to understand is that Frontier and the whole airline industry are fluid in their strategies and tactics and health for that matter. If Frontier held their course without change it would be easier for you to write their obituary, but they are on the move. Who knows if Frontier or any other airline will be here long term, but to say they are not valuable or do not stand a chance of suvival is both naive and presumptious. At least F9 is pursuing a strategy going forward to make it on their own merits, not depending on a merger or acquisition as their only plan for success in the future like the current UAL, Delta, and NWA plans.

Furthermore, it looks as if you have left F9 for greener pastures and in a sick sort of way would take some joy in seeing F9 fail so that it would validate your decision to leave. Well don't hold your breath. Frontier has a superb product, excellent employees, new airplanes and equipment, and hopefully now...a plan for the future. Most importantly they have the desire to succeed against the odds, not unlike the scrappy SWA of 20 years ago. We will see.

Wow.... easy fella.... It was just a question. No I have never flown for Frontier, so I didn't leave for greener pastures. If you read my whole post you might have noticed that I said I have friends at Frontier and have to see them in this situation. So... no I don't take joy in seeing F9 fail!!!!! But according to your post they don't have anything to worry about and that makes me feel better.

Stillflyn

 

[USMC319]

Wrong. I didn't say "they don't have anything to worry about". I say to every airline pilot in the industry (except maybe the freight guys), you DO have to worry. The day you accept a seniority number and receive pay and QOL based on this seniority number, you have effectively given control of your career to somebody else. The only thing you can do is give up your seniority number and go get another one somewhere else and subject youself to the same reality.

At the end of the day, in this deregulated industry, you have to be pretty stupid to put all your eggs in the airline basket and just hope your CEO is going to provide for your family's future. Unless you have a crystal ball, guessing which airline is going to take you to retirement is like playing roulette. The ones at PanAm, Eastern, TWA, and countless others didn't seem to work that good. Remember those were the unsinkable airlines at the time and little Southwest was the airline sure to fail at that time.

 

[F/O]

.....

 

[FBN0223]

Wrong. I didn't say "they don't have anything to worry about". I say to every airline pilot in the industry (except maybe the freight guys), you DO have to worry.

Best advice...Don't worry. There are lots of things to do in this world if your airline goes away. They're called "jobs". Worrying does nothing but shave years off your life.

With that being said, if I was gravely "concerned" about my current airline, I would certainly look into changing airlines earlier rather than later and avoid the rush. For most, being completely out of the airline biz and having one of those "jobs" is even more frightening that starting over at a new airline.

 

[monkeybrains01]

Paul Tate is an idiot. Until someone wakes up and $hitcans his useless a$$, F9 has no chance of long term viability. F9 certainly has other issues to deal with, but this guy has been killing F9 for years.

 

[Larcifer]

Paul Tate is an idiot. Until someone wakes up and $hitcans his useless a$$, F9 has no chance of long term viability. F9 certainly has other issues to deal with, but this guy has been killing F9 for years.

Smartest thing I've heard on this thread yet. I've been on a couple of these sinking ships and F9 is heading for the same iceberg. Great product, employees, yadda yadda... don't make for a profitable company. Drink'n the kool aid and hoping doesn't feed the family.

I was looking for a job when I went to F9 and I'll be look'n when she goes down. Same sh**t different paint scheme.