*New Jetblue Pay Rates*

[Dan Roman]

I guess the UAW guys/gals at GM, Chrysler and Ford are making out great on their concessions too... A union has no clout if your company is in quicksand. SWA for many years had the best contracts for a narrow body fleet because their company has been healthy-- it will be interesting to see what happens in the near future with their current financial issues.

SWA did as well as they did because they had a union. They will not lose it because they have a........ you guessed it, a union.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Time will tell...

 

[B6Busdriver]

A lot better than if they hadn't had a union. What you guys bashing the "union airlines" don't seem to grasp is if the pay rates are raised at all it's because the "union airlines" raised the bar.

Dan Roman is right....we are riding on the union carriers coat tails. Thank goodness someone has the stones to fight for us indirectly.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I guess the UAW guys/gals at GM, Chrysler and Ford are making out great on their concessions too... A union has no clout if your company is in quicksand. SWA for many years had the best contracts for a narrow body fleet because their company has been healthy-- it will be interesting to see what happens in the near future with their current financial issues.

Apples and oranges. I'm sure Herb and the gang said hey we're doing well so let's give these guys raises. The SWA pilots NEGOTIATED their rates.

I can just see it now, you and your ilk will be beating your chests and pointing fingers on Monday saying "see...see we told you they would do the right thing." Yet on Tuesday they could announce all 190 flying to be done by Republic. Or God forbid you scrape a wintip, is Nick and the PVC gonna have your back? How's that taxable LTD look compared to other carriers? Oh and OJI....sorry you can't use your STD that YOU pay for!

They can double my pay, I voted yes last time and will from now on. Oh and it will be for ALPA only, no touchy feely in-house crap either.

 

[labbats]

What you guys bashing the "union airlines" don't seem to grasp is if the pay rates are raised at all it's because the "union airlines" raised the bar.

Laugh of the day!

I guess you haven't seen the payscales at United. Your statement would be true if you replaced the word "raised" with lowered.

JetBlue gets a hefty pay raise and you want to talk about the mighty legacy airlines and ALPA. Maybe you should just thank them for helping your next attempt at raising your own bar.

 

[Beaver_Liquors]

Laugh of the day!

I guess you haven't seen the payscales at United. Your statement would be true if you replaced the word "raised" with lowered.

JetBlue gets a hefty pay raise and you want to talk about the mighty legacy airlines and ALPA. Maybe you should just thank them for helping your next attempt at raising your own bar.

Why do you think that the united rates were lowered in the first place???

 

[ualdriver]

Laugh of the day!

I guess you haven't seen the payscales at United. Your statement would be true if you replaced the word "raised" with lowered.

JetBlue gets a hefty pay raise and you want to talk about the mighty legacy airlines and ALPA. Maybe you should just thank them for helping your next attempt at raising your own bar.

Labbats, which airline do you work for?

 

[bluesideup340]

Why do you think that the united rates were lowered in the first place???

It is called free market. Do you imply we should replace our free market economy with something else?

 

[clickclickboom]

As a high credit senior FO that has bypassed 190 upgrade for nearly 3 years now I will get a raise of approximately $16,000. That does not include rigs, intl or night overrides.

Am I excited? Absolutely not.. I dont look at this as a raise but more of a CORRECTION.. This profession as whole has a long way to go to restore even 50% of the losses.

I will be voting Yes again

 

[Beaver_Liquors]

It is called free market. Do you imply we should replace our free market economy with something else?

yes i understand, but it sounded like he thought JB was doing the industry a favor. The "free market" rates were lowered significantly because of pay rates like JBs rates. I am not saying that ual is the be all and end all of airlines, and i am not saying that JB sucks, but anyone who thinks JB, CAL (from 83), Virg Am, Airtran are helping the industry, well i have to disagree with them. It all started with dereguation. I am glad that JB may be getting raises, but the damage has already been done and will continue until too many people are killed becuase we havent recruited the best and brightest. Listen to testimony from sully to congress. He and jeff have done more for this industry in an hour and a half than everyone else put together in the past 8 years.

To answer your question, yes, i think things should change, maybe "free markets" are not the best choice in safety sensative industries. The free market lowest cost might not work for airlines. But it shouldnt take airplane crashes to show this, we have too many bean counters and not enough leaders.

 

[contrail67]

Laugh of the day!

I guess you haven't seen the payscales at United. Your statement would be true if you replaced the word "raised" with lowered.

JetBlue gets a hefty pay raise and you want to talk about the mighty legacy airlines and ALPA. Maybe you should just thank them for helping your next attempt at raising your own bar.

I take it you did not see the new DAL contract? This is the new standard and others WILL follow.

 

[labbats]

I have seen it and am impressed. I'm optimistic the worst is behind us as well.

 

[contrail67]

United's pay rates were established during BK...in case you have forgotton. Trust me...they will go up. So don't bash United and their pay rates...If the new contract does not provide industry leading rates or rates remain the same as what they have been....then bash United all you want.

One thing I do not understand is why there is not something in United's contract...or any airline that went through the BK game....that when they exit BK they should go into a non-BK contract.....PERIOD....instead of staying in the BK contract with BS pay rates.

 

[contrail67]

Why do you think that the united rates were lowered in the first place???

He does not remember.....

 

[hockeypilot44]

United's pay rates were established during BK...in case you have forgotton. Trust me...they will go up. So don't bash United and their pay rates...If the new contract does not provide industry leading rates or rates remain the same as what they have been....then bash United all you want.

One thing I do not understand is why there is not something in United's contract...or any airline that went through the BK game....that when they exit BK they should go into a non-BK contract.....PERIOD....instead of staying in the BK contract with BS pay rates.

This is ALPA's failure and only ALPA's failure. There should have been snap-back clauses and snap-back raises put back into the contracts.

 

[PCL_128]

This is ALPA's failure and only ALPA's failure. There should have been snap-back clauses and snap-back raises put back into the contracts.

Hard to get that stuff into a contract when the BK judge is breathing down your neck wanting you to sign draconian concessions, and willing to impose them on you (with an injunction barring you from striking) if you don't.

 

[ualdriver]

This is ALPA's failure and only ALPA's failure. There should have been snap-back clauses and snap-back raises put back into the contracts.

Yes, there "should have been" many, many things negotiated when we had that 1113c cocked and loaded gun pointed at our head. I'm sure Wedoff would have approved that with a great big smile on his face along with a, "is there anything else I can do for you guys? Maybe a pay raise?" Yup, you're right. ALPA's fault. Everyone knows that the entire bankruptcy process shamelessly favors labor unions!

 

[ualdriver]

Hard to get that stuff into a contract when the BK judge is breathing down your neck wanting you to sign draconian concessions, and willing to impose them on you (with an injunction barring you from striking) if you don't.

he-he. You beat me by three minutes!

 

[hockeypilot44]

he-he. You beat me by three minutes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCL_128
Hard to get that stuff into a contract when the BK judge is breathing down your neck wanting you to sign draconian concessions, and willing to impose them on you (with an injunction barring you from striking) if you don't.


That's our biggest flaw. We are afraid of striking "illegally". A judge shouldn't have the power to stop a strike. The truth is he doesn't. We just believe he does. They New York Transit workers went on strike and no one was going to stop them. The ALPA officers are pussies who are only out for themselves. The are the most embarrassing, disgraceful leaders in history of any organization.

 

[motch]

Back to the original Post..

Are those the ACTUAL pay rates as of today or are they still the PROPOSED pay rates?
And as a few have mentioned.. what are the work rules that go with the new pay rates.

Everybody always gets in an uproar over payrates, but payrates are only part of the big picture.
Work rules, retirements and extra pay (uniforms, medicals, etc..)

Thanks
motch