New generation of USAF officers

[HoursHore]

And nothing against FAIP's, but 50% or more of T-6/T-37 IP's being FAIP's is wrong. You have no operational experience, and no matter how good of an instructor you are, you can't honestly tell me that you wouldn't be an even better instructor after 1 or 2 operational tours. Do your IP tour, but do it after seeing why we do what we do - I did mine after 3 operational tours. You are training USAF pilots, not T-37 pilots.

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I have never really understood the AF policy of FAIP's. Most WX cancel at the Drop of a hat, have seen nothing but AETC rules, and are too close the the Students in Age and experince to provide objectivity. (look at the CBM scandal) They are usually either hammers or SAnta's with no middle ground.

I did instruct with some who were pretty good though.

As a former T-1 guy, most of the Studs were hard chargers. There was a couple years though, where it was impossible to wash anyone out. I know of more than a handful guys who got thier wings without passing a single Checkride throughout UPT. Obviously the Sqd CC were under some kind of direction from up high.

I think when you have a yound cadet or Lt who seems to lack motivation, that belies a lack of leadership from all who have had a chance to motivate them. If you go into a ready room full of cadets and offer them a ride, and no one volunteers, just grab one. You are thier superior. And then get them sick as hell.

Also, crew cheifs, if you want a ride, become a Flying crew chief in a Heavy. You'll fly all the time. I keed I keed.

 

[HarryShadow]

I could tell you stories from the current leadership at Hurlburt that would make you throw up.

Just got done puking myself...very violent and mostly projectile!!!

 

[JungleJett]

Relax, he didn't say you had to be a fighter guy to be a warrior. There are several different "front-line" occupations in the AF, some of which you mentioned in your post. The point was that you don't always get the warrior perspective from learning and watching certain types of officers (like finance, medical, JAG, etc) during your stint as a cadet or OCS candidate. We need more of these "front-line" occupations such as pilots, navigators, special tactics, security forces, wrench-benders, etc to mentor these young guys while they are developing into young officers and officer candidates. And yes, Jungle, that includes being mentored by top-notch enlisted folks - preferably from aviation, security, or maintenance career fields. I've seen E-4 and 5 loadmaster and FEs who outshine E-7's and E-8's who spent their entire careers sitting at a desk and leading from the rear. Nothing pisses me off more than being lectured overseas by a SMSgt or CMSgt who happens to be "in-charge" but never left an air-conditioned office in their entire career. As for the a**hole WG/CC, well, a**holes aren't limited to the fighter community. This guy just happened to be an a**hole who flew F-15s. I've seen some who happened to fly -130s. Don't let it get you down. I could tell you stories from the current leadership at Hurlburt that would make you throw up.

There was an implication about no fighter guys in ROTC billets. But I may have been a little too sensative and I apologize..I am an airlifter for heaven sakes!

Anyway..best man/woman for the job. The intent of the post was that the younger folks need to remember that this is the military and there are certain personal and professional standards expected. It is encumbant on all those in uniform to mentor those who are not meeting those standards.

 

[McGillicutty]

For what it's worth the past two OTS/CC's have been F-15C guys.

 

[sandman2122]

From Albie

Want to fix it? Quit bitching on the internet. Grab 2 or 3 of these guys and take them home on hospitality night. TEACH them. Ask the AFROTC folks if you can chat with a few of the UPT types sometime when they have 10-30 minutes of slack time. FWIW--I did this several years at Tyndall--took kids over to my place for pizza, jetsking, pool party, and even offered beer--which cadets informed me they had to decline by reg. I didn't bitch at them--just gave them a few hours of fun on the water and let them SEE what being an F15 pilot can be...rewarding and cool. While we were chillin' on the bay, I answered their questions about why I thought being an Air Force officer and pilot was worth all the work and effort. We had a blast--then I took them back to their base before curfew. Hopefully--it mattered. If it didn't--at least I tried.

Funny how things are the same across the AF - simply change out "F-15 pilot" with C-9 or C-141 pilot and "Tyndall" with Ramstein or Travis AFB......

 

[highside]

Well, here's my .02. I'm in an F-15C squadron and the two guys we've got have good attitudes and they are begging to fly.
I'll be honest though, they don't have the big picture that there is a war going on. I was over in Iraq as an ALO with some JTAC's that same age who were FAR more mature (in the warrior sense) and faced extreme danger in combat situations almost daily and humbled me, the fighter pilot, with their bravery. I wish I could send them to college and then OTS to be fighter pilots, but in my opinion we have geeked out WAY too much in the fighter world. You have to be a damn genius now to make it through training, I swear a lot of the stuff (academics, firehose effect) is a little over the top good warriors get washed out, and braniacs make it through. I think we are bringing it on ourselves. I know it won't change, that is the wave of the future. If you want to find the kids that are gung-ho and hate star trek, go to a Special Forces or TACP squadron. I think during a time of war a lot of the good officer candidates are drawn to these kinds of career fields. Maybe I'm wrong, this is pure conjecture, but I'd be interested to see if their quality of candidates has gone up...

 

[HarryShadow]

If you want to find the kids that are gung-ho and hate star trek, go to a Special Forces or TACP squadron.

Dude...awesome thread!!! Nice to see some fighter brethren recognize the truth!!! If you've been in the mil the past few years, then you've contributed to the war in one way or another...regardless of what you do. Since I've been in the AF, and more recently AFSOC (5 years), I've been humbled by every soldier and marine I've met. I've realized that military pilots dont have a role without the boys on the ground. Most importantly, I've realized that they are our purpose and they are our job!!! It's not about what we do...it's about how well we do it for them!!! Most of our new copilots don't realize the big picture until after their first deployment when the get the chance to face-to-face with the real heroes. Im not sure the percentage of pilots who've actually dropped munitions or how many have actually been truly involved in a combat op (operations other than traditional support), but it's probably few and far between. Those who have, now have their once, maybe twice in a lifetime story to tell. But, the boys you supported on the ground wake up the next day (hopefully), and go do the same thing again and again...to them, I am grateful for what you do in keeping this country safe!!!

To the up and coming pilots...you'll be great at what you do if you recognize the sacrifice is not about what we sacrifice, but rather what our soldiers sacrifice...we just have to do everything within our power to make sure they have the best cover, support, fire, and recovery this nation has to offer.

Fight on fellas!!!

 

[frog_flyer]

this is a great thread. really gettin my fired up

 

[JoeBoy26]

I just wanted to chime in and add my .02...
I'm a civi student for the time being at a University that has an ROTC detachment...I came real close to joining my Freshman year but decided not to because I wanted to be able to explore all my options on both the civi/mil side of things (although I'm still highly considering the military as an option). Well, just from making observations from seeing the cadets on campus marching and doing PT at the Rec-center I could probably pick out just a couple kids that seem motivated. As for the rest of the cadets they seem pretty....lazy:erm: . Some of the ROTC guys are in my classes and they seem like goof-offs, but I do realize that just a few people do not reflect the ENTIRE detachment. I'm not trying to bash AFROTC in anyway, I think it's a great program and is a great opportunity. It just seems to me that they need to beef up the standards (supposedly they are or already have), especially with the force-shaping happening, in order to weed out the ones who may not be cut out for the Air Force.

 

[Deuce130]

I just wanted to chime in and add my .02...
I'm a civi student for the time being at a University that has an ROTC detachment...I came real close to joining my Freshman year but decided not to because I wanted to be able to explore all my options on both the civi/mil side of things (although I'm still highly considering the military as an option). Well, just from making observations from seeing the cadets on campus marching and doing PT at the Rec-center I could probably pick out just a couple kids that seem motivated. As for the rest of the cadets they seem pretty....lazy:erm: . Some of the ROTC guys are in my classes and they seem like goof-offs, but I do realize that just a few people do not reflect the ENTIRE detachment. I'm not trying to bash AFROTC in anyway, I think it's a great program and is a great opportunity. It just seems to me that they need to beef up the standards (supposedly they are or already have), especially with the force-shaping happening, in order to weed out the ones who may not be cut out for the Air Force.

If you really wanted to keep all of your options open, then you'd join ROTC. It's not an open option for you if you're not in it. Second, you'll be able to make a much better observation on the detachment from the inside. Third, if you end up wanting to fly in the military, I'm sure having more time in the detachment than the other guy couldn't hurt.