New generation of USAF officers

[HarryShadow]

The "goof offs" are the ones who will end up graduating #1 from ROTC, #1 from UPT, get their top choice and have a kick a*s career. Don't be too quick to judge. I was probably the goof-off, top of my class, went to jump school, top choice from UPT, all my commanders loved me, etc. Nothing wrong with having a little fun with life...be it ROTC or active duty, but join ROTC (no commitment until you go to field training), and see for yourself what it's all about!!!

 

[ExAF]

Standards?

I don't think there are any standards you have to meet to take ROTC. It is a class offered through the school and is open to anyone that wants to enrol. Once in the class you have to comply with their rules if you want to pass. Now scholarship students are a different animal.

 

[AlbieF15]

I was a ROTC screw up. I hated it. I detested the little Nazis that took things waaaay too seriously. I like some of the officer Cadre, but it was obvious some of them were not the A team guys.

However--I was smart enough to know what the commission and pilot slot could do for me. So I did what it took...

Magically when I showed up at UPT about 90% of those folks simply didn't show up--they went into other fields. I looked around at my UPT class and thought "dang--what a good bunch...." And it was...

I never will forget seeing a former Nazi classmate who hated my guts back at college. She was a Dod contractor, as she had been RIF'd before making captain. Many, many, many of those former Nazis didn't make major back in 90s and likewise found other jobs. Dispite my "poor attitude" and "anti authority personality" I managed to fly F-15s most of my career and am currently an O-5. Guess who I see now when I see silver oak leaves and commander announcements--the same guys I used to booze with back at AU days and snicker about the Hitler youth. Those who married their little Eva Brauns (fellow female cadets) all seemed to end up divorced too.

Lots of generalizations I know--but the Air Force IS NOT like ROTC. ROTC is a way to get to the AF, but don't get too wrapped around the axel judging your future by the present.

 

[McGillicutty]

Very refreshing reads from both highside and AlbieF15.

 

[Huggyu2]

My ROTC experience (Univ of Texas) was apparently somewhat unique: I had a blast, and I really enjoyed the ROTC folks. Maybe time has diluted the bad memories, but I remember nearly everyone as being well-rounded, and someone I could go run around town with on the weekend. In my year group, 1 guy made Major 2 below the zone... and he was a Comm Officer.
Also, I did social/club stuff with guys from the Navy/Marine and the Army ROTC. Good times.
This thread is making me wonder how much things must have changed over the years. Then again, maybe it's just my perception.
Bottom line: I got involved in ROTC, made some friends, met my wife of 18 years, had a blast, and got a career that I wouldn't trade back.

 

[kingsize]

I agree with highside. I wish some of those JTACs were pilots. After being an ALO and working with hardcore enlisted guys who were very physically active, lived life to the fullest, and always pushed the envelope in combat and in peacetime, I almost feel out of place flying again. There are lots of pilots who talk the talk, but few that can walk it. Frankly, I'm disappointed by the lack of leadership and lack of self discipline (lots of fat pilots out there, and lots that don't know how to behave like officers in situations) in my fellow pilots.

Back to the main topic...I agree that the newer generations are different, and bring some challenges. From all sources of commissioning, I see a lot of new guys who feel entitled to everything, or who forget that they are there to serve their country.

 

[XShipRider]

This reminds me of those in the USN who don't want to serve on a ship.
Same prinicple but different service. There were many people who suddenly
pulled the old 'sports injury' trick to avoid sea service. Sadly most of them
got away with it.

How do these kids slip through the cracks during interviews/screenings
and the like?

No intent to 'jack the thread with reference to another service.

 

[RickKC-135]

You guys crack me up. Now that I'm an old retired guy I'll pass on a story from an O-6 when I graduated UPT. He came to the flight room and proceeded to say what a jump we were taking into the operational world and we would soon be instructors either by staying as a FAIP or after some time operational. He went on to say, when the time comes and you are flying with that guy who is not quite up to speed and you start to loose your patience and think "these new guys suck and there's now way I was ever like this" trust me you were just as bad because I've flown with every one of you several times.

Additionally, to the fighter guys; not everyone wants to fly a fighter. It may surprise you but in my UPT class the #1 grad took a C-141, #2 a KC-10, then a couple of fighters. The B-1 went with fighters and T-38's still left. One guy had the choice of a KC-135 or a T-38 and took the tanker. When they started the NFL Draft style assignments, the brass was really surprised to see how the assignments fell out.

 

[milplt]

You missed the point that I was making. It has nothing to do with whether you liked ROTC/Academy, etc. or how you did in UPT. The new generation is always the same - but back then there was no PC b******t to prevent the old dudes from shaping the new guys. UPT was tougher back then - don't try to tell me differently - I have been in AETC since 2000 in both the USN and USAF and I was a student in the late 80's/early nineties. Students now will almost quote the CTS if you try to give them less than a G or 4 or whatever you use where you are. Old dudes - what is a CTS? Anybody from the UPT bases care to tell me how many people have actually been attrited lately (not just sent to the Wing CC and returned - actually gone). Gradesheets are written for the lawyers, now. Hell, UPT students will freely admit that they are coming into the military for the sole purpose of transitioning to the airlines after the commitment is up. I would have liked to see you try to say that openly in 1992 - you'd have been escorted to the front gate. For the old nuggets, how many of you would have written a UPT end-of-course critique (sp?) (yes, they have those now for UPT) saying that your contact checkride evaluator was too nit-picky on his ground eval and the flight eval didn't accurately reflect what really happened in the air. It happens now - I was the evaluator and I saw the comments from the student. As an instructor, I have had to tell students that if I work harder during the flight than they do and I care more in the debrief than they do then something is definitely wrong. They have no fear anymore - we can't do anything to them. One student told his evaluator "That's BULL***T" when the evaluator told him he busted his checkride and then walked away and sat down. More insubordination followed - guess what, the Sq CC reinstated him into training - said the Lt "didn't know better." PS, the flight doc eventually got him booted from the service for medical reasons - THE FLIGHT DOC stepped up to pick up the trash left by the line officer CC. COME ON. WE (notice the collective WE) are failing at taking the new guys who are as new as they have always been and making them 100% operationally capable rounds. And pulling them aside one at a time isn't working - it is institutional.

Rick - as far as who selects fighters and who doesn't - you put too much weight into that. As a matter of fact, it takes work to find a T-37/T-34/T-6 student who will tell you they want the T-38 track. Timidness in UPT is an allowable trait, open fear of washing out of the T-38 track and selecting the T-1 instead is OK. And, as I said before, some will even say they want heavies for the future airline career. (Yes, I know the wisdom of their statement is a whole new debate - they are still young and naive). I don't care where they finished in Tweets, I want my fighter candidates to be lean forward and motivated. I taught primary UPT and just because they flew a good ILS didn't mean they would be any good at ACT or SAT (not the college tests) - they need to be motivated to spend countless hours in the WTD and vault and in the bar hanging on every word of the old craniums. In the old days, that is how wisdom was passed down - now all of that is just something to get in the way of "family time". I have been around the USAF more than most - look at my profile. As for the guy that selected -141's top of his class - moron with poor judgement. Same with the B-1's - not that the B-1 isn't a great offensive weapon. But you made it sound like this was a while ago, and 150 hrs/yr at Dyess with no ACE/CTP program sucks. Now, if it was in the last 2 years, then it was a good move to get some combat experiences. I'd fly a B-1 in a heartbeat now - just not in peacetime. One last thing - the dude who took KC-10's, no qualms with that - the -135 guy--????????????

 

[highside]

Sad

You guys crack me up. Now that I'm an old retired guy I'll pass on a story from an O-6 when I graduated UPT. He came to the flight room and proceeded to say what a jump we were taking into the operational world and we would soon be instructors either by staying as a FAIP or after some time operational. He went on to say, when the time comes and you are flying with that guy who is not quite up to speed and you start to loose your patience and think "these new guys suck and there's now way I was ever like this" trust me you were just as bad because I've flown with every one of you several times.

Additionally, to the fighter guys; not everyone wants to fly a fighter. It may surprise you but in my UPT class the #1 grad took a C-141, #2 a KC-10, then a couple of fighters. The B-1 went with fighters and T-38's still left. One guy had the choice of a KC-135 or a T-38 and took the tanker. When they started the NFL Draft style assignments, the brass was really surprised to see how the assignments fell out.

In a time of war, picking a tanker over a fighter?? If this would happen now that would be pathetic. I'll leave it at that. Your post proves that this aversion to fighting is not unique to the new generation, so perhaps there is nothing to worry about. I know NKAWTG, the same logic applies to everybody down to the janitor that empties the trash in my squadron. The simple fact is there are those that choose to carry the gun into the fight and those that choose to stand on the sidelines.
This does not include the people who never had a chance to fight because they didn't get the jet they wanted etc... But those who CHOOSE to keep out of the fight?!?! I don't understand why you put on the uniform if you don't want to fight. Just my opinion, and I've backed up my talk.