New generation of USAF officers

[ExAF]

You Got Shorted

Back in my day it was a million dollar education shove up the @ss a nickel at a time. You didn't get your money's worth if you only got 300K. Also, it's your fault if you took astro. My old roomie was an astro geek and he didn't care about flying either. He's a great guy, still a great friend and had a fine career, but he didn't have that drive to fly. I remember searching out the opposite sex and massive quatities of beer after duty hours, but I was scrounging any flying I could get during the day. Hardly what I would call working hard, more like hardly working. I also took guys home for a meal and an adult beverage so they could relax, have a home cooked meal and maybe see what their future might hold when I was on the active duty side. The dinks couldn't get enough (ROTC & USAFA). I think this generation is different. Not necessarily wrong, but a different by-product of today's society. I don't think any of the other posters have lost their clue, they just see things changing as do I.:beer: Cheers...ExAF...My $.04

 

[Otto77]

WTF....I busted my a$$ to get here and the situation you described is UNSAT. We had a ROTC kid a few weeks back pull the wrong handle on one of our T6s during an summer orientation ride and activated the Canopy Fraturing System..ooops...probably paid too much attention to star wars and not enough to the life support and IP brief...its crazy...most of those kids look like they just graduated 8th grade ha

now as far as the guys in my class...we thankfully dont have much of the SNAP folks in with us..that could be b/c half of us are guard reserve though haha...probably just started a war with that comment

 

[Draginass]

Unenthusiastic ROTC cadets? I've been retired for a while now, but that's a new one . . . and not wanting to fly, YGBSM.

 

[b19]

My sixteen year old daughter is all over me about a jet joy ride and would I pay for some helo lessons this summer, because it looks like fun. She would have knocked someone over trying to make it on the plane, it is the same if we are going fishing, mountain climbing or anything else that sounds remotely fun.

Sounds like they recruited some very bright managers, and system analyst types. Well I guess it takes all kinds.

P.S. I was Army not smart enough to be Air Force, but I had fun, drank way too much, did really stupid sht and learned to take care of my people.

 

[Birdstrike]

If milplt's observations are accurate, and I'm sure they are for his locale, then I'm glad that all AFROTC dets are not the same. I agree with Albie's comments as well, leadership is a big piece. My kid's in AFROTC at VMI and it's a take no prisoner's det from what I've heard and seen largely due to the caliber of leadership there. They do take kids home and out and around and it's working there. He's at Tyndall now for his midcourse so it'll be interesting to get his observations when he gets back. There seems to be a new emphasis on small unit tactics, leadership, and a back-to-basics in some AFROTC dets; experienced cadre back from deployment with an urgency to teach what they've learned. Change is due. I think it's beginning.

 

[Caveman]

Jesus. You guys sound like a bunch of old curmudgeons. It's always been this way. The old breed thinks the new breed doesn't have what it takes to be warriors. It's been the same old complaint since time immemorial. When the ******************** hits the fan the new guys ALWAYS step up and do what it takes to get the mission done. Don't sweat it. Do your part and LEAD and the rest will take care of itself.

The LCpls and Cpls I left behind when I retired almost a decade ago are now SSgts and GySgts leading Marines in combat and doing a fine job. It's the normal passing of the torch. Those fledgling young officers will be just fine.

 

[Merlin'05]

It depends on the person most of all. There are still people who love flying, love learning about the military, love trying to do as much as they can. There are also people who hate all that, and then those in between.

Myself though, I can't get enough of flying--of any type. I'll even take the back seat of an airliner. No wait, I'll take the back heavy if it means I'm in the air. I would always get livid when some guy would tell me the multiple F-15 or F-16 flight he got over the summer and how he didn't care about them. I tried begging, barrowing, or stealing for 4 years to get an Air Force ride and they either never worked out or got cancelled. The closest I got was in a BUFF--where we sat on the hammerhead for three hours engines running trying to fix the plane before they cancelled, and I immediately worked on getting another flight--which they refused (jackasses). My first AF ride in a cockpit area was in a KC-135 a few months back when I became a casual LT. I'll take that as much as they will allow me.

There were a bunch of ROTC and Academy guys out here (Altus) for their summer programs. In each group there were both types of people.

Talking to a lot of the older guys (I'm talking about going through pilot training in the 60s for example), there were still both groups. Things haven't changed.

The old guys will always say the new guys suck. The new guys will always say the old guys are... well... old and they don't need to learn from them.

 

[milplt]

Frog_flyer, bulls--t on them for not wanting to fly, or on me for lying? Specify please.

Albie, don't forget that by the time they get to you, they have been through many levels of screening. I train those that go to you, and I know that the ones we see are not representative of the entire sample. I also instructed T-34's at Whiting, and the overall attitude is poor among our new ascessions (sp?). I had an Ensign tell me on Fam 6 that he didn't want any of my techniques, he had his own. I also had an AF Lt complain on a critique that he didn't like how I grilled him for 45 minutes during the brief as if I was looking for a knowledge deficiency, then when I found it grilled him for another 15 on that topic. Also, my flight evaluation didn't accurately reflect his actual flight. Mind you, this was all on a Safe of Solo checkride and I was the evaluator. There was a USCG student who wouldn't fly with his instructor because the weather stripping between the wing and fuselage was coming loose. Mx signed off on it and the IP agreed, and the SP said no - and no one looked twice. Another USCG student refused to fly solo because she was uncomfortable with the winds - and they were well within solo limitations. Another student was attrited from either VT-6 or VT-2 twice (being kicked back by the commodore twice), then went to the other of the 2 squadrons (either 2 or 6) and was attrited and sent finally to VT-3 and was attrited. A student pilot attrited by ALL 3 fixed-wing squadrons on the base and still the commodore is not removing him from the program. I had an on-wing finish T-34's with a NSS of 16 (no kidding took a full twice the number of front seat sorties as the syllabus allowed to make it to solo). Another student told me I could have his ground ops be fast, or correct, but not both. This is the avg.

Caveman, it is bad enough that around 2001, NAMI psychologists (sp?) at KNPA did a study to see if this generation was in fact different than that of the past. They determined that it was, and it had to with always receiving instant gratification and not having to work for anything from today's parents (an oversimplification - but the results were along those lines). Combine no built-in work ethic with no incentive (or fear that we all felt back in the day) and you get what you get.

My point is that I see it as an institutional problem - and one-on-one get togethers won't fix it. Cadets and Lt's/Ensigns don't feel the threat of elimination, push-ups aren't allowed in AFROTC or at the Academy, no one enforces any of the old discipline building exercises because we aren't allowed to anymore (Albie, seen any backpack toting LT's lately?). The mishap rate is up among all of the services, and they are not combat losses (although they are combat-related in some instances and the ability to hide your low skill level by cancelling the mission is not an option at times).

Motivation is not rewarded nor demanded, is it BoilerUp?. I think we can all agree that some of the most difficult training in the AF (outside of flying) is the combat rescue officer course. It was reported at Moody that anyone who attrites this program is eliminated from the AF.. That's right, put your neck on the line, fail, and you are out. Meanwhile, we will keep that non-motivated LT who didn't step up for anything and became a finance officer (yes, we need finance officers - so put the motivated go-getter LT who didn't pass the CRO course in that job - boot the slug out instead for being at the bottom of the pile). Same as the old T-38/T-1 decision - step up and go T-38's and maybe get washed out, or go T-1's and be destined for wings - no reward for putting it on the line. (By the way - I am also of the thought process that if you aren't willing to step up to the T-38 despite the increased risks, we don't want you in the pointy-nose world). DG programs are going away. The non-rated AF promotion rate is higher than the rated promotion rate - who goes to combat, again. Intel is getting posted on every website imaginable - with pictures and video, of course. Supposed misreps are even making it to individual public websites with callsigns, tactics, and all. And if anyone raises the BS flag on the appropriateness of the posting, it is he who gets flamed vs. the one with no sense of OPSEC/COMSEC.

I just feel that we are on a downhill slide, and it is ocurring on our watch and we are just watching as it happens. It is up to us "old craniums" to set and enforce the standard - because I agree with Albie. If no ones teaches them, they won't know - but there is no across-the-board teaching go on. Our predecessors trained us well, and we are dropping the ball with those following us.

 

[Weasel Keeper]

Wow! Next time you run into a situation where you can't get a volunteer for a backseat ride...ask a Crew Chief! We MIGHT be lucky enough in an entire career to get an incentive ride in one of our beloved machines...I'm still waiting for my chance.

 

[Caveman]

milplt,

I don't doubt that this generation is different from the last one. Of course it is and we were different from the generation before us and they were different from the one before them. That's the way it's always been. They'll be fine as long as we keep teaching them what we learned. They will learn and make their own mistakes. They aren't less than us, just different.

Brokaw's "Greatest Generation" thought all us boomers were worthless too, but we turned out all right. I'll admit they were a tough act to follow, but we didn't totally screw things up. Generation Y or X or whatever they're called these days will eventually pick up where we left off and take care of things until the next worthless bunch comes along.

Look at the young warriors in the fight right now. I'm blown away by their youth, professionalism, courage and devotion to duty. We'll be fine as long as we keep producing young men and women like that.