New Furloughs 4 Mesaba

[mesaba2425]

I'm no expert but I don't think the union reps are going for an "industry leading" contract. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the MEC is trying to exceed the highest paid guys out there.

The MEC says they are going to settle for nothing less than an industry leading contract. We'll have to wait and see if they walk the talk.

 

[cl-65link]

The MEC says they are going to settle for nothing less than an industry leading contract. We'll have to wait and see if they walk the talk.

Can every XJ pilot in good standing vote on a possible agreement or is it done by MEC vote? Pinnacle and a lot of other airlines have membership ratification.

 

[saabtrash]

It's member ratification this time.

 

[Want2FlyAgain]

I worked for Mesaba from 98 till 00 and loved every minute of it. I still miss that airline to this very day. I now teach aviation courses at a college after getting furloughed from UAL in 2001.

I wanted to wish all of the XJ pilots the very best, and hang in there!!!

Eric

 

[Sppedmode]

Hey T-gates,

First off, nice avatar, that is some funny shiite.
Second, NWA had a LOA come out when we got our 44 seat pay to match 50 seat pay that said that no 44 seaters could be converted to 50 seat jets. They are stuck with the 44 seaters unless they change the LOA now.

 

[T-Gates]

Hey T-gates,

First off, nice avatar, that is some funny shiite.
Second, NWA had a LOA come out when we got our 44 seat pay to match 50 seat pay that said that no 44 seaters could be converted to 50 seat jets. They are stuck with the 44 seaters unless they change the LOA now.

Did not know that..... Everyone I have talked to has been under the impression that we could get 50 seaters. Good to know....

Do you know where there is a copy of that LOA?

Thanks,

T-Gates

PS-- Someone told me that my avatar reminded them of a certain management type person.....

 

[justmeinmsp]

Do you mean to literally add six seats to the 44 seat aircraft on property or are you saying they can not convert the 44 seat orders to 50 seat orders? The 50 seat orders are tied directly to the number of mainline narrowbody aircraft. If memory serves me, it is something like 350 or 360 narrowbodies. After that they are allowed 1 for 1 on the fifty seater's. The 44 seat aircraft on property now, can never have anymore seats added, per the NW contract. There scope language is pretty air tight, and I personally hope it stays that way. I would like to think I might someday have a "mainline" to go to. Also, any ALPA member in good standing has access to all ALPA contracts and LOA's on the ALPA website. www.alpa.org. It is very informative reading.

 

[T-Gates]

I was thinking they would convert the orders for 44 seaters to 50 seaters.....

Thanks, I'll check out the LOA.....

--T

 

[dondk]

As I understood it..

"if" they remove an AVRO, it can be replaced with a RJ up to 55 seats.

As for the 44 converted to 50's.. it can be done, but it requires way too much paperwork and money for NWA to do it.

A few of those "converts" (the first couple 50 to 44) can be converted easily.

Otherwise all recent 44's cannot be done with $$$. We all know NWA will not do that so they are here to stay!

It is also directly tied to the narrow body fleet, that is why we only have 30 50's when we were "suppose" to have 36. But NWA retired those 727's and that stopped the 50's.

 

[CWASaab]

I don't think anyone really wants a strike. Shutting the airline down is not the goal, getting a good contract is the goal. Right now a stike authorization ballot (be reminded we cannot strike without being released +30 days) sends the message that we are serious, that we expect to continue making progress and that we are behind our MEC and our NC. That is why we need 100% and we should all be expecting this turnout, so talk this one up in the crew rooms, and keep in mind that any failure to vote will be interpretted by the company as a no vote.

I feel for the pilots who are new to this airline, no one deserves to be furoulghed, certainly not you folks. I also feel for some of our pilots who are possibly facing their third furlough since 2001. Not that it is much solace, but a large part of what we are shooting for is to improve the lives of FOs.

I understand that the industry is in a rough patch right now, and to ignore that, or not consider that fact would be foolish. However, Mesaba is not insolvent, neither is NWA (they even just posted a profit for Q3) so why shouldn't we ask for an industry leading contract? I have been to the roadshow, and I know some of the costs involved in what we are asking for, and yeah, they are large numbers. But who here thinks that the ammount of profit shown by MAIR isn't directly controlled by NWA through the airlink agreement? And, I am pretty sure that we make a lot more profit than shown in our annual report. We certainly make enough to fund Foley's 36% raise and his MSP crash pad and commuting expense.

I don't know if we will be operating 36 Avros when this all shakes out, but I am confident we will operate some. I can't see NWA giving up ASE, and I can't imagine Foley sitting in the CRj for his flights in/out of HPN. And then there are the passengers. I have talked to many of our pax and they love the comfort of the Avro. I have met people who make two connections (dtw and mem) rather than take a non-stop out of dtw because the non-stop was a CRj. I have also met pax who choose to fly NWA because of the AVR's first class cabin flying into places like XNA. I think if the Avro goes away and gets replaced by CRjs NWA will suffer some revenue loss and negative public opinion.

The timing of this announcement is not at all coincidental, NWA/MAIR wants nothing more than for us to think the Avro is going away, and for the NMB to think the same. Many of us have been saying that the moves made in the past were just the first plays of the game. Now we start the second quarter. Loss of airplanes, hostage taking (furloughs, firings) are all well worn tactics used by management.

Unity and solidarity must be our answer, as well as restraint. Go to the roadshow, become informed, Vote infavor of approving the strike authorization, and continue to operate professionally and safely. Do not break status quo, give the NMB no reason to punish us or delay the process.

Thank you to everyone who has offered their support, we appreciate those thoughts.

On a side note, the Avro operates with 69 seats (16 First, 53 Coach) with NWA scope saying they fly 70 and higher.

 

[DoinTime]

I think if the Avro goes away and gets replaced by CRjs NWA will suffer some revenue loss and negative public opinion.

Not neccesarily....First class service is getting more sparse by the day and the passenger doesn't always have a choice. How many booking options out of XNA are there for first class service? The strength behind small RJ service is frequency of service and multiple hub options. Passengers will piss and moan about being crammed into a small aircraft but the majority will be back when their next trip comes because the of the schedule options. The entire industry is jam packed with RJ's. If the passenger choses not to fly NW they will have to sit on a CoEx RJ, or a DCI RJ, or an Eagle RJ.

My personal opinion on the Avro's getting parked is that NW is insulating themselves for a strike situation at Mesaba. Take the Avro's out of service before the strike is called and none of the routes formerly served by the Avro can be considered struck work. They can temporarily get by with substitutions from CRJ's and DC-9's until the last phases of contract negotiations are worked out. If a strike occurs the only services lost due to struck work will be Saab routes which will have a much smaller impact on traffic.

As for the 44 converted to 50's.. it can be done, but it requires way too much paperwork and money for NWA to do it.

A few of those "converts" (the first couple 50 to 44) can be converted easily.

Otherwise all recent 44's cannot be done with $$$. We all know NWA will not do that so they are here to stay!

The 44 seat CRJ's that have been delivered CANNOT be converted back to 50 seaters and likewise the 50 seaters that have already been delivered CANNOT be converted to 44 seaters. This is the language that was agreed upon in the LOA for the continuation of the American Eagle codeshare. Once a CRJ has been delivered it CANNOT be converted to any other seating configuration.

The revenue potential of those six seats is upwards of $200,000 per month, per plane. I would seriously doubt NW would let a little paperwork stand in there way of having an extra $90 million in potential annual revenue available ($270 million annually when the deliveries are completed).

 

[CWASaab]

First class XNA passengers have a choice between Mesaba and American. Granted, Eagle serves XNA with more frequency, but AMR does fly in, and provides a First Class cabin.

I chose XNA as an example because I was just there last week and heard a passenger say that w/o the Avro service there would be no incentive to fly NWA. From what I have heard from our passengers there would be a negative impact for NWA, whether that extends beyond opinion to revenue I can only say that based on my dealings with those passengers it will, but that is certainly no guarantee.

Honestly I had not thought about the idea the parking the Avros now was a move to counter struck work issues. Interesting idea, and certainly as good of an explanation as I have heard. The only thing is that based on my understanding, it will be primarily up to Mesaba's MEC along with input from PCL MEC, NWA MEC and ALPA to determine what constitutes struck work and what type of support from PCL and NWA we desire. I would think that tactics like this would be taken into account in that determination. I am not an expert, and perhaps that is not how it works, but I am under that impression.

 

[efiscompmon]

The usual situation is that existing routes, at the time the strike is begun, may be flown but without an increse in frequency or gauge of aircraft.

Example: if it were PCL striking, Mesaba could make the one flight a day MSP to ATW (if you still do it) but not the other three or up-gauge it from a saab to an avro.

This is why there is usually at least one flight to each city and why DAL has put so much effort into spreading DCI around.

 

[Jose Whales]

My deepest sympathy to all furloughed pilots and family!!!

Jose Whales!