New Furloughs 4 Mesaba

[General Lee]

OOOPS, I didn't know how many seats were in the Avro---I thought there were less. So, what would NW replace the Avros with in a relatively short amount of time?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[T-Gates]

Most likely, without change in scope language, they'd convert some 44-seat orders into 50-seat orders....

 

[phishhman]

HOw about this: XJ strikes, NWA voids their contract because of labor unrest, they are removed from the scope clause, and Skywest is then allowed to jump into the mix. Just a thought.

 

[Cargoboy]

I guess I can stop sending my resume in to Mesaba for a while.
good luck all!!!


Hope they can work something out I always use to hear good things about Mesaba. Being from the home based city in MPLS. I was hoping to get on with them.

I really feel for those poor guys who got hired on over the summer. Talk about being lied to.

T-gates great icon by your name!!! Classic.

 

[norskman2]

Cargoboy,

Who do you dog freight for in MSP?

I love your avitar! I can tell which one's management and which one's the pilot!

 

[Cargoboy]

Priority Air.
Being doing it for to long and I need to make the next step. flying 310's out of Anoka. 14 hour days and up at the butt crack of dawn to get home in time for a smoke and a pancake. and a quick pickle tickle with the wife to start the process over 8 hours later.

 

[Mdojet]

Mesaba - to Cathal

What I am trying to get at is, of course I think you guys need a contract with better pay and work rules, etc. In the current airline enviroment, an industry leading contract is a tough sell. Thats reality. I am all for striking to get what you deserve but at what costs? I read a thread that someone started feeling sorry for the mechanics. Hey, if they were in the pilots shoes, they would strike in a minute and not think twice about the pilots..believe me! A plan could be that you negiotiate a payraise, and sure it might match another regional's pay but not industry leading but have the contract be amendable in 2yrs or 3yrs and by that time things should have time to recover. Take a look at Eastern Airlines. Those pilots literally shut down the airline and they had a tough time getting jobs elsewhere. Not sure if you want that in your history. All I am saying is weigh all your options, look at the recourse of those options, and see if it makes sense. Lets not destroy everyones livelyhood by making hastey decisions. If I was in your shoes, yes, I would vote to strike. It will send a message to management that you guys mean business but most of all that the pilot group is unified. But with the games that NWA is playing with Mesaba, I think Foley is more interested in maintaining a partnership with NWA than settling a contract at this point. In my opinion, this week is not the time to strike but maybe in a few months, the timing could be in your favor. Best of luck

Mike
www.webjetcareers.com

 

[SpocksBeard]

I'm no expert but I don't think the union reps are going for an "industry leading" contract. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the MEC is trying to exceed the highest paid guys out there.

 

[bluesky3]

"Take a look at Eastern Airlines. Those pilots literally shut down the airline and they had a tough time getting jobs elsewhere."

MDOjet,

I am sure you know the facts about the EAL strike so I won't bore you too much. However, for the rest of the pilot family----the Eastern pilots did not shut down that airline. The whole employee group shut down that airline because of one mans greed and geniune disregard for those that labored for him.

The EAL mechanics were the first to strike. The pilots and flight attendents followed with a sympathy strike. I understand MDOJET might be making a point, but it appears as a lack of knowledge as to what happened. Too many people I fly with spout of facts about the EAL strike and have no idea what they say.

MDOJET, again I understand what you are saying---just trying to set the record straight.


Fly safe!

 

[T-Gates]

"Take a look at Eastern Airlines. Those pilots literally shut down the airline and they had a tough time getting jobs elsewhere."

MDOjet,

I am sure you know the facts about the EAL strike so I won't bore you too much. However, for the rest of the pilot family----the Eastern pilots did not shut down that airline. The whole employee group shut down that airline because of one mans greed and geniune disregard for those that labored for him.

The EAL mechanics were the first to strike. The pilots and flight attendents followed with a sympathy strike. I understand MDOJET might be making a point, but it appears as a lack of knowledge as to what happened. Too many people I fly with spout of facts about the EAL strike and have no idea what they say.

MDOJET, again I understand what you are saying---just trying to set the record straight.


Fly safe!

Good Post, not everyone realizes that all 3 big unionized groups at EAL went on strike. The airline would have been gone in late '89 if Lorenzo had not gone and used scab labor. It was the scabs that allowed Frank Lorenzo to further dip into pension funds to keep EAL running until he was finally removed.

Don't let fear of what's gonna happen affect your ability to affect what you WANT to happen. If going on strike is what you want vote yes....

The reason many ex-EAL pilots had trouble getting jobs, is because that was one of the WORST hiring situations ever.... Pan Am had just gone TU, as well as Braniff II... Such a glut of pilots existed that it was tough for anyone to get a job. Most of the scabs had to ex-patriate themselves to far away countries to find work, while the strikers began to trickle back into the US Airline industry.... (Along with some scabs...)

Give em' hell guys!!!

 

[mesaba2425]

I'm no expert but I don't think the union reps are going for an "industry leading" contract. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the MEC is trying to exceed the highest paid guys out there.

The MEC says they are going to settle for nothing less than an industry leading contract. We'll have to wait and see if they walk the talk.

 

[cl-65link]

The MEC says they are going to settle for nothing less than an industry leading contract. We'll have to wait and see if they walk the talk.

Can every XJ pilot in good standing vote on a possible agreement or is it done by MEC vote? Pinnacle and a lot of other airlines have membership ratification.

 

[saabtrash]

It's member ratification this time.

 

[Want2FlyAgain]

I worked for Mesaba from 98 till 00 and loved every minute of it. I still miss that airline to this very day. I now teach aviation courses at a college after getting furloughed from UAL in 2001.

I wanted to wish all of the XJ pilots the very best, and hang in there!!!

Eric

 

[Sppedmode]

Hey T-gates,

First off, nice avatar, that is some funny shiite.
Second, NWA had a LOA come out when we got our 44 seat pay to match 50 seat pay that said that no 44 seaters could be converted to 50 seat jets. They are stuck with the 44 seaters unless they change the LOA now.

 

[T-Gates]

Hey T-gates,

First off, nice avatar, that is some funny shiite.
Second, NWA had a LOA come out when we got our 44 seat pay to match 50 seat pay that said that no 44 seaters could be converted to 50 seat jets. They are stuck with the 44 seaters unless they change the LOA now.

Did not know that..... Everyone I have talked to has been under the impression that we could get 50 seaters. Good to know....

Do you know where there is a copy of that LOA?

Thanks,

T-Gates

PS-- Someone told me that my avatar reminded them of a certain management type person.....

 

[justmeinmsp]

Do you mean to literally add six seats to the 44 seat aircraft on property or are you saying they can not convert the 44 seat orders to 50 seat orders? The 50 seat orders are tied directly to the number of mainline narrowbody aircraft. If memory serves me, it is something like 350 or 360 narrowbodies. After that they are allowed 1 for 1 on the fifty seater's. The 44 seat aircraft on property now, can never have anymore seats added, per the NW contract. There scope language is pretty air tight, and I personally hope it stays that way. I would like to think I might someday have a "mainline" to go to. Also, any ALPA member in good standing has access to all ALPA contracts and LOA's on the ALPA website. www.alpa.org. It is very informative reading.

 

[T-Gates]

I was thinking they would convert the orders for 44 seaters to 50 seaters.....

Thanks, I'll check out the LOA.....

--T

 

[dondk]

As I understood it..

"if" they remove an AVRO, it can be replaced with a RJ up to 55 seats.

As for the 44 converted to 50's.. it can be done, but it requires way too much paperwork and money for NWA to do it.

A few of those "converts" (the first couple 50 to 44) can be converted easily.

Otherwise all recent 44's cannot be done with $$$. We all know NWA will not do that so they are here to stay!

It is also directly tied to the narrow body fleet, that is why we only have 30 50's when we were "suppose" to have 36. But NWA retired those 727's and that stopped the 50's.

 

[CWASaab]

I don't think anyone really wants a strike. Shutting the airline down is not the goal, getting a good contract is the goal. Right now a stike authorization ballot (be reminded we cannot strike without being released +30 days) sends the message that we are serious, that we expect to continue making progress and that we are behind our MEC and our NC. That is why we need 100% and we should all be expecting this turnout, so talk this one up in the crew rooms, and keep in mind that any failure to vote will be interpretted by the company as a no vote.

I feel for the pilots who are new to this airline, no one deserves to be furoulghed, certainly not you folks. I also feel for some of our pilots who are possibly facing their third furlough since 2001. Not that it is much solace, but a large part of what we are shooting for is to improve the lives of FOs.

I understand that the industry is in a rough patch right now, and to ignore that, or not consider that fact would be foolish. However, Mesaba is not insolvent, neither is NWA (they even just posted a profit for Q3) so why shouldn't we ask for an industry leading contract? I have been to the roadshow, and I know some of the costs involved in what we are asking for, and yeah, they are large numbers. But who here thinks that the ammount of profit shown by MAIR isn't directly controlled by NWA through the airlink agreement? And, I am pretty sure that we make a lot more profit than shown in our annual report. We certainly make enough to fund Foley's 36% raise and his MSP crash pad and commuting expense.

I don't know if we will be operating 36 Avros when this all shakes out, but I am confident we will operate some. I can't see NWA giving up ASE, and I can't imagine Foley sitting in the CRj for his flights in/out of HPN. And then there are the passengers. I have talked to many of our pax and they love the comfort of the Avro. I have met people who make two connections (dtw and mem) rather than take a non-stop out of dtw because the non-stop was a CRj. I have also met pax who choose to fly NWA because of the AVR's first class cabin flying into places like XNA. I think if the Avro goes away and gets replaced by CRjs NWA will suffer some revenue loss and negative public opinion.

The timing of this announcement is not at all coincidental, NWA/MAIR wants nothing more than for us to think the Avro is going away, and for the NMB to think the same. Many of us have been saying that the moves made in the past were just the first plays of the game. Now we start the second quarter. Loss of airplanes, hostage taking (furloughs, firings) are all well worn tactics used by management.

Unity and solidarity must be our answer, as well as restraint. Go to the roadshow, become informed, Vote infavor of approving the strike authorization, and continue to operate professionally and safely. Do not break status quo, give the NMB no reason to punish us or delay the process.

Thank you to everyone who has offered their support, we appreciate those thoughts.

On a side note, the Avro operates with 69 seats (16 First, 53 Coach) with NWA scope saying they fly 70 and higher.