New FAA rules....tidbits

[Benjamin Dover]

Commutting was my first question to him. He flatly said it was discussed but they know there is absolutely no way to control or monitor it. He said no rules on commuting.

Glad about this. I commute and I am way more rested than some of the "local" pilots I fly with who drive 2 hours or more or do various things before driving to work like farming, fishing, golf, home imrovement, kid duty with triplets, trying to make a kid duty with blue pill assist, etc. My fairly short flight with a nap and then chill in the lounge for an hour or so, I know I'm feeling better than some of those non-commuters.

 

[RJLoser]

Not going to happen. Colgan will be forgot and this will boil down to money. Trust me, I'd love to be wrong.

 

[Dude]

To echo what Joe said........

The issue has nothing to do with rest and fatigue. Experience and aptitude at the controls is the issue. I flew stand-ups exclusively for years in the mountains and in $hitty weather.......no stalls, and no crashes. The elephant in the room is the fact that there are some folks who shouldn't be at the controls of a paddle-boat, much less an airplane.

Until the standard is raised at every airline....this problem will exist and craches will continue. I remember when you had to have 3000-4000 hours just to fly a Metro, let alone a 50K+ lb. aircraft. Simple solution; some should, and some shouldn't. Experience isn't the only element in question. There are plenty of 10K+ hour pilots that are terrible and pull it off only because they have company in the cockpit.

Fatigue, my hiney. I do my best landings when I am half asleep....forgetting stuff

 

[waveflyer]

there are a lot of long term affects with fatigue-- ask the Mesa crew that fell asleep- that captain had so many health defects due to this it was ridiculous-- the Apnea alone probably meant he hadn't had a full nights sleep in years.

Dude- i agree with you completely-- the reason law school and the Bar is so hard is b/c the lawyer industry makes it that way- Has 2 affects- 1-makes sure lawyers are competent people which creates and keeps demand for the product. 2- lawyers are less likely to accept substandard wages after going through the process.

Doctors- same thing.

Pilots in Europe- same thing. We must raise the standards- academic and performance. Combine the JAA and FAA processes. If you can't cut it- get another career.

But- Dude- Fatigue is also an important issue. and i'm glad it's getting addressed. There's a whole lot of things we can do on a day by day basis that are not good for us long term.

 

[miaboeingcapt]

Anyone know if the re-work in the FT DT rules is just going to be Domestic 121 or are they going to tackle international and supplemental 121 too?

As a former 121 supplemental pilot, the new rules should be exactly the same for every 121 carrier! There should not be any difference.

 

[hawkerjock]

Very rough numbers from the FAA 2009-2025 forecast:
Hull's ----------------2008------2009------2010-----2011------2012

mainline AC ---------3743-------3365-----3587------3716-----3823
cargo (jets) ---------949-------943-------955------981------1009
regional jet+tprop ---2582------2329---- 2426------2451 ----- 2513
corporate jets-------11400-----12325-----13155----13945-----14710
corporate tprops ----9600------9665------9740------9860-----10015
pilots req ----------132,514----127,982---133,886---138,414---142,608
pilots w atp's ------146,838---147,650----148,400---149,100---149,700
difference ----------14,324----19,668----14,514-----10959------7,092
% unemployed -------9.7%-----13.3%----9.8%--------7.4%-----4.7%

2012 is going to be a good year (as long as no 1000 variables happen)

If the 121 group require 10-15% more pilots that will etc etc.....

 

[CapnVegetto]

question......is this going to affect 135 in any way shape or form?

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Nice try. Never happen.

 

[zonker]

This is a dream list. This is what should be done, not what will be done.

When you read about "Big Labor" in the WSJ editorial page... this list is why they use those sort of ridiculous terms. Labor hasn't had power for over thirty years.

They intend on keeping that power.

 

[waveflyer]

Right- and why doesn't labor have power?

Maybe we should look in the mirror and figure out why our peers vote republican 70% of the time when they do not value us in any way. We disenfranchise ourselves.

 

[SteelerMan]

I have heard the opposite on commutting, the new regs are aiming at requiring pilots to be in base 8 hours prior to trip

Requiring us to be in base 8 hours prior to a trip would actually contribute to the problem in some cases. 1800 show, now you have to commute in early in the day to sit around the airport waiting to fly, that won't work.

 

[scoreboardII]

well of course they want to adopt the CAA rules, thats so when they release cabatoge and start letting Third Country National airlines fly all our routes for 1/5th the pay, they will already have the same rules...

 

[CatfishVT9]

Right- and why doesn't labor have power?

Maybe we should look in the mirror and figure out why our peers vote republican 70% of the time when they do not value us in any way. We disenfranchise ourselves.

Why? I continue to vote against Dems because they stole my vote in 2000 (FLA "disenfranchised" absentee voter). Many of us also vote Republican because we don't want Socialistic policies and there's no other alternative.

Last fall one of my FOs was telling me how I should vote for Obama from the labor perspective. I looked at him and said: "F--- my job, I'm voting to save the country." I'll continue to do so and it looks like the public is finally waking up to November's huge mistake.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

And here comes the red vs. blue guys to ruin the thread. Yay.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

For all the naysayers about these regs: If Congress wants it, it will happen. Congress owns the FAA, and they have a LOT of power. That is why the Age 65 change happened so quickly. Congress TOLD the FAA what the new rule would be, and that was that.

I hope that the rules go through...the only problem will be the ATA lobbying Congress...to what effect? I think the -121 supplemental operators MAY be able to get themselves exempted. I hope not!!!

Cliff
NBO
PS-I am flying now using Kenyan CAA Internationl rules..highlights:
11 hours MINIMUM crew rest. No exceptions.
160 MAX DUTY TIME LIMIT in 28 days (for ALL Kenyan pilots, not just Intntl).
Max Duty Day 15 hours...but NO flight time limits.