New Emirates order....

[Whip Whitaker]

Good god, General Grant. 18000 posts in 11 years? That's over 4 posts a day every day for the last decade. I'm guessing you don't have much of a social life.

 

[General Lee]

I'm sure the domestic US industry will be fine. But over the next decade I would bet good money that you will see legacies losing the fight over international capacity with EK, Qatar, etc. It's a big sh#t sandwich but unless we see a radical shift in policy you better plan on it.

Not from the US. Americans don't need to fly to the Gulf to back track to Europe, or go to Asia. You may affect the European carriers, but not us. And plucking certain one way routes, like MXP to JFK, will have very little affect. The European countries will become more stringent if you really start affecting them. Your next turn will be to overtake Africa. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Good god, General Grant. 18000 posts in 11 years? That's over 4 posts a day every day for the last decade. I'm guessing you don't have much of a social life.

This type of response usually comes from someone who cannot debate. I usually do multiple responses each time I log on, so you are wrong. Guys like you don't want people to do something they enjoy also. That is sad....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Green]

General,

I think EK has already severely disrupted the european carriers. The big European hubs are being replaced by DXB. Instead of flying to Heathrow or Paris and then on to Asia, India, or Africa passengers are making one stop in Dubai then heading wherever.

MXP-JFK is just the first of many. The biggest impediment to Emirates at the moment is a lack of available aircraft. Once more airframes start arriving I think you will see Spain-USA, UK-USA, and Asia-USA. Given the capacity constraints at Dubai the logical response will be to open more routes which do not touch the hub.

When given a choice between a better product at a cheaper price or a US legacy I'm guessing most pax will choose EK. Possibly not those who are tied to a frequent flyer program. Lets see how the next 5 to 10 years pans out. EK is reaching critical mass and the brand is gaining awareness in the US. It's the last piece of the puzzle for Emirates.

 

[General Lee]

General,

I think EK has already severely disrupted the european carriers. The big European hubs are being replaced by DXB. Instead of flying to Heathrow or Paris and then on to Asia, India, or Africa passengers are making one stop in Dubai then heading wherever.

MXP-JFK is just the first of many. The biggest impediment to Emirates at the moment is a lack of available aircraft. Once more airframes start arriving I think you will see Spain-USA, UK-USA, and Asia-USA. Given the capacity constraints at Dubai the logical response will be to open more routes which do not touch the hub.

When given a choice between a better product at a cheaper price or a US legacy I'm guessing most pax will choose EK. Possibly not those who are tied to a frequent flyer program. Lets see how the next 5 to 10 years pans out. EK is reaching critical mass and the brand is gaining awareness in the US. It's the last piece of the puzzle for Emirates.

Wow, World domination is on your mind.... The European carriers are going to set up defenses, and if it doesn't work, then the Govts will continue to clamp down. It's just basic economics and politics. Enough complaints to the leaders, and they may not stay as leader too long. Dubai has a problem though, actually many, namely Doha, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, and others. Everyone over there is trying for the same thing, connecting pax. The European airlines will have to get their financials in order, but when they do, nonstops will trump Gulf connections. You are also going up against airlines like Singapore, Malaysian, Air Asia, Garuda, etc. They have lower costs than you do. All the Gulf carriers will mainly compete against themselves, and it will crush you.


And, keep trying with Europe to the US routes, like, laughably, Birmingham to BOS. Yeah, keep it going.... Very interesting...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Green]

You seriously think Singapore, Garuda, MAS, BA, KLM, etc present a real threat to EK? You realize that the Qantas tie-up effectively castrated Singapore right? The only real competition I see is from Lufthansa. But they are operating from a much higher cost basis.

BHX-BOS might be a good route. Huge indian populations in both cities. I guess it's not really worth arguing. I don't think you have a clear picture of the current state of affairs outside of the US. Lets just revisit this argument in 5 years. If EK is flying Antonovs out of Cameroon I will declare you the victor. By the way Africa is a massive profit center for Emirates.

I certainly don't want to see world domination for Dubai. I wish the US mgt teams would stop dicking around and seriously compete instead of endlessly focusing on synergies and cost control. They continue to do the same old thing and get the same results. Sadly I think the golden days of US aviation are long gone. Now it's run by a bunch of talking heads who just want to move money around and get rich in the process.

It's kind of sad to taxi by a DAL 757 with winglets on some ramp in Africa or Europe. It looks like a third world airline parked next to a bunch of 330's/340's and 777's. I hate to see Dubai taking over. I just call it as I see it. Wouldn't mind another big crash.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/03/opinion/dubai-khanna/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1

 

[Dornier 335]

I'm sure the domestic US industry will be fine. But over the next decade I would bet good money that you will see legacies losing the fight over international capacity with EK, Qatar, etc. It's a big sh#t sandwich but unless we see a radical shift in policy you better plan on it.

Cheap labor! How many thousands of Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis legally work 12 hour shifts for "a sack of rice" in Dubai et al? Take a look behind the scenes, it ain't pretty.

 

[General Lee]

You seriously think Singapore, Garuda, MAS, BA, KLM, etc present a real threat to EK? You realize that the Qantas tie-up effectively castrated Singapore right? The only real competition I see is from Lufthansa. But they are operating from a much higher cost basis.

BHX-BOS might be a good route. Huge indian populations in both cities. I guess it's not really worth arguing. I don't think you have a clear picture of the current state of affairs outside of the US. Lets just revisit this argument in 5 years. If EK is flying Antonovs out of Cameroon I will declare you the victor. By the way Africa is a massive profit center for Emirates.

I certainly don't want to see world domination for Dubai. I wish the US mgt teams would stop dicking around and seriously compete instead of endlessly focusing on synergies and cost control. They continue to do the same old thing and get the same results. Sadly I think the golden days of US aviation are long gone. Now it's run by a bunch of talking heads who just want to move money around and get rich in the process.

It's kind of sad to taxi by a DAL 757 with winglets on some ramp in Africa or Europe. It looks like a third world airline parked next to a bunch of 330's/340's and 777's. I hate to see Dubai taking over. I just call it as I see it. Wouldn't mind another big crash.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/03/opinion/dubai-khanna/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1

Funny stuff. Africa is fairly junior for our pilots, and that means you probably were in Dakar or Accra. Wow, enjoy those two hot spots. Have you been to Narita lately or AMS? A lot more DL 744s, 777s, 330s, etc. You must see a lot of Africa. Do you load up on Malarone? Watch your liver. Did you get a Typhoid shot? I don't go to Africa. I hear it is profitable for most airlines that go there. You must go there a lot. I'm not jealous. Do you have a choice to where you go? Not according to most on PPRUNE.

BOS to BHX may have some limited success, but not long term. Nah, that's throwing darts at hopes and dreams. And, I hope you guys are extremely profitable outside of the US, because that's just it, you won't get the huge access you desire TO the US. Big airports here are limited. Nobody wants to give up anything. Same with most of Europe. It's great you connect Chinese from PEK to Tripoli via DXB, that's fantastic. I don't think anyone else wants to do that. And, the big 3 US carriers are only getting stronger due to Consolidation, financially and even politically. Your entrance into the large cities and most profitable cities in the US will be limited. Sorry. Have a great one in Conakry.

PS--- you know who your real competition is? Turkish Air. They have access to all of Europe, anywhere in Germany and France, and have big planes coming too. They are the ones who give the Gulf Carriers heartburn. Via IST they have as many connections to all over the ME, even including cities like Mogudishu and Djibouti. And, IST is just a bit too far for Americans to back track to cities in Western Europe, and Asia is very doubtful. I bet their service rivals yours, too, and they are a member of NATO. Oh well..... A perfect buffer to the Gulf Carriers.




Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[flyboyike]

I wish the US mgt teams would stop dicking around and seriously compete instead of endlessly focusing on synergies and cost control. They continue to do the same old thing and get the same results. Sadly I think the golden days of US aviation are long gone. Now it's run by a bunch of talking heads who just want to move money around and get rich in the process.

Amen.

 

[Flopgut]

It's kind of sad to taxi by a DAL 757 with winglets on some ramp in Africa or Europe. It looks like a third world airline parked next to a bunch of 330's/340's and 777's. I hate to see Dubai taking over.

The US Navy is larger than the next largest 13 naval fleets of other countries. I point that out as a reminder that if/when our airlines get their act together we will be a force to be reckoned with. The US is not completely inept. Additionally, it sounds to me as though there is going to be a lot of fighting amongst each of the three Gulf carriers and and Turkish. Possible you three/four duke it out and we stay clear of the fray. Be careful predicting the certainty of US airline demise.

Comments like this will wear thin real quick:

"In a sign of the Gulf's increasing power in the industry, Emirates Chairman Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum said he was confident of a shift in stance in the West that would allow the group to fly more of its planes to airports there.



"We are buying a product from their countries. So why would they not allow us to fly to these airports? If they don't, they can take their planes back," he said."

No matter how sincere that that threat is, no American wants to hear it. I hope he keeps popping off like that.