New Delta vs AirTran

[General Lee]

Latest rumor I seriously heard was that the MD-11s would be pulled from the desert and retrofitted with the cargo mod and used in conjunction with other Skyteam members cargo arms. Apparently a feasibility study was done and a profit of $30 million in the first year was submitted. That is better than having them sit in the desert and rot.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[aroundtheblock]

My bad. I can admit when I'm wrong. When I was at the commuters I didn't try ValueJet Because of pay, safety, and reputation. I assumed after the merger that things were better but I didn't realize they were that much better. I wish the best for those guys there.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

But let's not kid ourselves into thinking that flying for a LCC's are what we dreamed of as a kid, not for a final career

I'm afraid times have changed. From the perspective of someone who still IS a kid about to take the first step on to the ladder of becomming an airline pilot, I would much rather have a long and dedicated career to an airline like AirTran or Southwest making a reasonable salary with reasonable benefits and a good retirement plan than to be miserable with a struggling major airline that is having economic problems and has very low morale. In the end its not the huge salaries and abundant benefits that will bring happyness, its being able to work with a group of people with high morale that love what they do, and are willing to work together as a team to accomplish their goals. While there are still many people with this attitude at the major carriers, there are those like the Captain mentioned above that ruin it for everyone.

 

[FLB717]

Well to make a point that I hope aroundtheblock, General, Me, FBC, Fins and the others can all agree is: Thank God I don't have a real (ie cubicle) Job.

 

[furloughed]

deleted, supposed to be a PM.

 

[skykid]

Citrus Jockey, interesting how much things have changed in a few short years. 150K/year, 14-19 days off, 11% B-fund, AND a nice A fund used to describe a medium seniority First Officer at a few airlines, not a 9 year captain. Maybe the industry can sustain captain level expectations at this same level, minus the A plan of course, but I doubt it. My guess is there are 1000s of pilots willing to be captains of 737/717/Buses at less than 100K/year.

Skyboy1981, I agree with your post. My question is, when you obtain your dream captain job at 150K/year, 10.5% B fund, 14-19 days off, great job with a fantastic company, how do you respond to the guy who will captain your size airplane for 80K and 12 days off? He's a low time CFI now, but he's out there. For him, 80K and job security at a great place to work with new airplanes sounds pretty awesome. Plus once his new airline grows, wages will go up, right?

As a side note, in my opinion the defined pension plans are gone, at Delta and all the majors. Some will go quicker than others, some will go in varying degrees, but you can't pay millions or billions to these funds when the competition doesn't. Generally speaking the majors already have the 401K B type plans now in addition to the defined pensions.

 

[FDJ2]

Latest rumor I seriously heard was that the MD-11s would be pulled from the desert and retrofitted with the cargo mod and used in conjunction with other Skyteam members cargo arms.
Bye Bye--General Lee

Come on General, everyone knows there's no $money$ in cargo. (tic)

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Skyboy1981, I agree with your post. My question is, when you obtain your dream captain job at 150K/year, 10.5% B fund, 14-19 days off, great job with a fantastic company, how do you respond to the guy who will captain your size airplane for 80K and 12 days off? He's a low time CFI now, but he's out there. For him, 80K and job security at a great place to work with new airplanes sounds pretty awesome. Plus once his new airline grows, wages will go up, right?

I get your point, and you're right to a certain extent. Airtran and especially SWA aren't necessarily full of just young guys willing to work for lower costs though. I know SWA particularly has a group of pilots with just as much age and experience in the airline industry as any other major airline. The difference at SWA though is that, even though the potential isn't really there to ever make $250 to $300k a year....they are happy with where they are and the morale is high. That, to me, makes all the difference in the world.

 

[FL717]

For some reason (around here at least) everyone seems to miss several of many major flaws in the whole salary debate... and here is a few:

1. There are many..... MANY airlines that had salaries that were absurdly(sp?) low... i.e. Vanguard, Midway, Legend, Access Air, etc. that never turned sustainable profit and failed, hence proving that Pilot salaries neither make or break an airline.

2. During the late nineties when some of these airlines I mentioned including others I have not mentioned (SWA) were "dragging" the industry down by accepting low wages, and in some cases PFT... Delta, United American, Northwest etc all signed industry leading contracts without so much as a second thought to what these others were paying their pilots.

Why is it suddenly an issue to you all now? I'll tell you why, it is a quick and easy "fixed" cost tool for management to correct YEARS or poor money mangement, and it is incredibly simplistic minded for some of you to vent on this forum as if this is all the fault of LCC pilots.

AND finally 3. Southwest has been around for 30 years. They haven't stopped the Majors from banking trillions... yes TRILLIONS of dollars during the last 30 years.

Where's Waldo I ask?

BTW - I want more money too!!! But your companies money problems are NOT as a result of the LCC salaries and if you think they are, then I have some property I would love to sell you.

 

[skykid]

FL717, I'm not blaming anybody, I'm just sharing my opinion that compensation will continue to look worse for this industry.