New AT to SWA training plan out

[scoreboardII]

Clearly you have never been close to the mechanics as to how contracts or agreements at this level are negotiated, or have ever been part of an arbitration.

We're not about a few scribbles on a napkin. Try reams and boxes of documents that have legal standing, the same as your doctor's notes that he has transcribed after a visit.

Remember, arbitration favors those with the best documentation, and unclear or ambiguous language is usually decided in favor of the side that didn't write it. Remember those notes? They contain information as to who wrote what language in the agreement. As the AT side has been down this road before, and had good legal counsel. I guarantee you those notes are extremely detailed, down to who said what, on what date and time. Even the smallest details are recorded.

I've seen arbitrations over seemingly CLEAR language, black and white, guaranteed win, lost on the intent as presented by the negotiator's notes. You'd best give a call to your NC or Contract Administrator if you think it's just about what's in the print of any agreement.

Nu

And all it takes is one note from the other side which says those reams of paper and boxes of notes are not what was agreed to in writing. SWA may have fallen off the turnip truck at night, just not last night.

 

[Lear70]

Honestly, I don't blame the AAI guys for doing it. I would too if the shoe was on the other foot. I think it's kind of a hail Mary, but it's worth a shot.

Thanks for acknowledging that... seriously, it's more than a little maddening when SWA peeps get mad at us for something that, if truth be told, and the shoe were on the other foot, you guys would probably be doing the very same thing.

We may get somewhere with it... we may get nowhere at all. But it actually could have gotten ALPA sued for NOT doing anything as a DFR issue. ALPA bears the responsibility to pursue it when we know we negotiated the deal with the intent to protect those CA seats and an ATL domicile. No ill will wished towards any of you, whatsoever... seriously.

Hope we can get through this sooner rather than later.

 

[Lear70]

And all it takes is one note from the other side which says those reams of paper and boxes of notes are not what was agreed to in writing. SWA may have fallen off the turnip truck at night, just not last night.

Good luck with that, when the recorded road shows and statements from SWA management personnel back those negotiating notes as for intent of the 717 to stay through at least 1/1/15.

Nu is spot on for how arbitrations work... which is what I said a couple days ago.

 

[scoreboardII]

I ask you again Lear, define "stay past 2015"? All 717's? Some? Most? What exact number was promised?

 

[Citrusflyer]

As has been mentioned, by doing this, and AAI ALPA not giving them relief on the training issues, it's going to cost ADDITIONAL millions of $$$ in training costs, having to run several hundred 737 pilots back through 717 training to honor the flush bid, the two months for each pilot who will come out of the system to train, drawing full pay during training, plus hotels, plus per diem, plus the sim costs from Alteon, etc. Then they'll have to run them through full initial at SWA again when they transition.

That kind of money, however, is small potatoes compared to the money savings on the 717 deal with Delta, and obviously wasn't even enough for us to use as a carrot to get something for the way it negatively impacted us.

From what I've heard (from the Alteon folks) is that as of March 1st Airtran only has 717 sim slots for PT/PC's and some extra time (for sim outage, re-check's, etc). Other than that Big D has 100% of the sim time for the next 12-18 months. Sooo, if SWA wants to train the Airtran 737 to 717 TBA guys they'll have to send them to Helsinki (where the only other 717 lies in waiting). Even then, that's not a lot of crews. But, hey, if they want to spend everyone's profit sharing $$$ to send the AT guys on a Nordic Vacay - spend away!

 

[madjack]

So the issue is the 550 717 CP seats verbally promised post 1/2015?

So, if awarded who would get the seat/money? The system rebid guys who bid 717? Or would there be another bid now that the 717 will be definitely gone?

 

[ASADFW7]

I feel for the AAI crews avoiding going on strike and such. I guess it could be better if they weren't bought by SWA. Maybe Usair?

 

[scoreboardII]

Good luck with that, when the recorded road shows and statements from SWA management personnel back those negotiating notes as for intent of the 717 to stay through at least 1/1/15.

Nu is spot on for how arbitrations work... which is what I said a couple days ago.

Lear, my sources are calling your recollection of events a polar opposite to what was talked about behind closed doors and whats written in the SWAPA notes. The 717 was acknowledged behind closed doors as possibly leaving earlier, and resulting in the loss of more captain seats to AT, as referenced by your team being the ones to bring up that point. They still voted yes. This is all smoke and mirrors folks.

 

[Lear70]

Lear, my sources are calling your recollection of events a polar opposite to what was talked about behind closed doors and whats written in the SWAPA notes. The 717 was acknowledged behind closed doors as possibly leaving earlier, and resulting in the loss of more captain seats to AT, as referenced by your team being the ones to bring up that point. They still voted yes. This is all smoke and mirrors folks.

Lol Mkay. Sure. Whatever you say.

Because a dozen roadshows with SWA management saying the same thing I'm saying hear and a thousand plus pilots recalling the same message is also something your "sources" decry as well.

Nice snake oil.

 

[madjack]

Judging from public statements by AA and JN, it appears that SWAPA doesn't think the AAI DR has much merit... But Lear and Nu seem to think the negotiating notes and statements by SWA at road shows will win the day...