New AT to SWA training plan out

[Lear70]

Cruncher, Lear wants no part of facts such as NC notes detailing the 717 would go away early rather than later and his MEC was the side that brought it up. He wants no part of discussions that their seniority over time is within tenths of a percent of pre-purchase announcements.

No, I'm just tired of arguing, especially when half your assertions are just plain wrong, SB.

Cruncher's numbers take AAI retirements into account, but they don't take into account the SWA pilots who will retire before 1/1/15, which changes where the 50% mark will fall on that date and, whereby, the AirTran pilots will fit into the mix.

On 1/1/15, with the 717's now going away, 373 FAT pilots will still be F/O's but can hold CA by seniority. That number was vetted on both sides (ALPA & SWAPA) during negotiations; it played a pivotal role in a LOT of conversations on several different dates.

That aside, not sure what point you're trying to make, but the simple fact is that those CA seats were supposed to be protected by the deal we made. And now they're not. So we're grieving it. Not really much else to talk about until the grievance is done and, as I said before, I'm kind of worn out talking 5 ways around the same subject, so I'm simply going to say that I'm done debating this issue, I wish all of us well coming out the other side of this, and just because I'm not responding doesn't mean I agree with you or that I don't have an argument to counter with, I just don't think it's productive anymore.

I'm appreciative of those of you who have reached out and let me know that at least SOME of what I said helps you put things in perspective from our side of the fence, even if you don't agree with it; not much else I could ask for, and I hope to buy you guys a frosty one on the overnight sometime.

That's it. I'll let you guys have the last word on it. Cheers! :beer:

 

[canyonblue]

I think Uncle Gary did some arm twistin out in Seatlle, and the 717 was part of the deal sugah/fallout, depending on your point of view.

I was told that it was Delta that approached GK and offered to take over the A/C. I heard he couldn't get the deal signed fast enough, since he was convinced we were stuck with them. This deal was beyond his wildest dreams, and we were willing to help pay part of the costs just to be rid of the airplanes. The 717 were the problem GK made go away, it was perfect timing with the Delta deal.

 

[Muppets]

Any Airtran FO (and maybe CPT) that has looked at future Delta retirements and thought about getting out of this F'ed Up situation? 20 year upgrade on a 737??? Travel benefits to Lubbock, Wichita and Dayton!!? How about Europe, S. America, Japan, and Australia? I dont hate on SWA, I just think there may be a better doctor for my condition. However, I will continue to study 737 BS until conditions change

 

[Cruncher]

Lear,

Sorry, but wrong. The names I posted are from the COMBINED list on 1/15. I broke out the AT retirements because the entire premise of my post was regarding AT guys holding captain seats outta seniority order.

So no, go back and PROJECT the list and check the numbers. What I posted is factual data.

Otherwise, please post seniority #'s and first names. Or we can take this PM?

Again, my original post was just an observation that I stumbled upon. I proved my point.

Cruncher

PS BTW, there are over 250 COMBINED retirements by 1/15. The 50% is the 50% I listed. I'm without my computer right now. Peace dude.

 

[scoreboardII]

That aside, not sure what point you're trying to make, but the simple fact is that those CA seats were supposed to be protected by the deal we made. And now they're not. So we're grieving it. . Cheers! :beer:

I agree, cheers, beer, but those CA seat protections were given away after sl9, sorry, your recollection is faulty, your facts are specious, take care.

 

[freightdogfred]

I agree, cheers, beer, but those CA seat protections were given away after sl9, sorry, your recollection is faulty, your facts are specious, take care.

Yes dear, you are right again, I know. You have got the last word in dear, and you are right as always. Can we let this go now honey, please?

 

[Cruncher]

On 1/1/15, with the 717's now going away, 373 FAT pilots will still be F/O's but can hold CA by seniority. That number was vetted on both sides (ALPA & SWAPA) during negotiations; it played a pivotal role in a LOT of conversations on several different dates.

I tried to make your claim work, it just doesn't. I double checked my numbers, and Doug is still the most junior former AT guy below the 50% system seniority pilot. Look at Mr. #3866 on 1/15, not look up to the first former AT guy.

He will be the 318th most junior former AT guy still on our list on 1/15.

So even if not a single AT pilot had a captain seat on 1/15, the most it could be is 318. But you will still have 216 holding a captain seat; therefore, 102 not holding a captain seat below the 50% line (but again, 90 bid FO; hence the 12 displaced pilots).

Again, my observation is that by having 36 * B717 remaining (and the corresponding Captains) normalizes the list (to within a dozen pilots or so) versus them all being here and having guys hold captain seat outta seniority up to almost 1,400 pilots.

Again, it's just an observation.

Pardon any grammar, running ....

Cheers,

PS I was going to let it go, but your claim is so far off, it merited a follow-on post. Sorry bud, I'll buy the first frosty, though I'm JAFFO too

 

[madjack]

Some interesting rumors:

From MVDV: ATL domicile next year

From reliable sources in training: 700ish AAI-SWA transitions next year

Some serious cheese is being moved on the AAI side, if I was at AAI I wouldn't be happy (especially with AAI/ALPA) and I would expect my union to pursue the DR... I would also try to label SWA as dishonest in regards to the 717 even though public statements and historical record clearly show the company intended to divest itself of the airframe...

AAI got a bad deal on this SLI, sure you well get a raise and the opportunity to work at a great airline, but CAs will lose seats and upgrade times will be extended and folks will have to commute or sell their homes at a loss etc....but I don't think AAI should have gotten a better deal than this one...there is plenty of pain on the SWA side...especially the mid to junior FO level.

 

[Citrusflyer]

Some interesting rumors:

From MVDV: ATL domicile next year I'll believe it when I see it.

From reliable sources in training: 700ish AAI-SWA transitions next year That's going to be a real trick. The current TP only has 166 going to SWA the first half of 2013. They'd have to 'train' over 90 per month to meet that goal. Not going to happen.

For what it's worth...

 

[Cruncher]

I'm with Citrus on this one.

700 transitions? 166 through June, .... Maybe if we start flying the sims around the clock it'd be possible. But with PTs, PCs, & transitions, it's not going to be easy.

 

[madjack]

1000 a year possible even with PC/PTs...this from our union...just sayin...

 

[madjack]

P.S...don't forget that little disclaimer from Russell: Training Plan subject to change...

 

[Cruncher]

Thx Jack.