New AT to SWA training plan out

[madjack]

So the arguement is going to be on 'intent'?

And verbal promises (with notes)...could get interesting and costly for SWA...which is already paying 1/2 the $100,000,000.00 cost of refitting the 88 AAI 717 to DAL Livery and interiors....

 

[FlyinGuy]

We have lawyers, CEO's, CFO's, not to mention all the financial advisors!!!

 

[madjack]

Yes we do, but we aren't the ones filing a legal action (DR)

 

[Britpilot]

So the arguement is going to be on 'intent'?

You had plenty of time to put that in writing and it wasn't done. It's not in the agreement. Definitely an uphill battle when a company has a business to run...and decisions to be made accordingly.

Not really. By that time it was just a case of take it or leave it.

 

[madjack]

"Not really. By that time it was just a case of take it or leave it."

So your beef with SWA is that:

1) you were verbally promised 717 seats (and bid accordingly)

2) you weren't given the time or opportunity by SWA to get that language in the agreement

I understand that if you bid on an aircraft that no longer exists, you would want the chance to rebid...but that would incur training costs to SWA...you want a piece of some of that money that SWA is saving by not allowing a rebid...well, since we are "all on the same team" you shouldn't have any problem sharing some of those gains with your SWA bros and sis's? Or maybe you would and maybe we are really not on the same team...on this issue...

 

[Ty Webb]

We get it, MJ . . . You didn't make the cutoff to upgrade into one of the Captain seats we agreed to give up, and so now you've convinced yourself that the rest of our 717 CA seats are "spoils" that you should be entitled to, and it's our MEC's fault, or SWA management, or our pilot group.

You're not going to convince anyone on our side of the partition that you're right, and you're not going to suddenly see it our way either, so what's the point of this exercise?

 

[humveedriver]

We get it, MJ . . . You didn't make the cutoff to upgrade into one of the Captain seats we agreed to give up, and so now you've convinced yourself that the rest of our 717 CA seats are "spoils" that you should be entitled to, and it's our MEC's fault, or SWA management, or our pilot group.

You're not going to convince anyone on our side of the partition that you're right, and you're not going to suddenly see it our way either, so what's the point of this incessant bickering?

No dude, he upgraded. He's just remembering why reserve sucks after getting his first choice for the last 6 years. He wants that line back!

 

[Britpilot]

"Not really. By that time it was just a case of take it or leave it."

So your beef with SWA is that:

1) you were verbally promised 717 seats (and bid accordingly)

2) you weren't given the time or opportunity by SWA to get that language in the agreement

I understand that if you bid on an aircraft that no longer exists, you would want the chance to rebid...but that would incur training costs to SWA...you want a piece of some of that money that SWA is saving by not allowing a rebid...well, since we are "all on the same team" you shouldn't have any problem sharing some of those gains with your SWA bros and sis's? Or maybe you would and maybe we are really not on the same team...on this issue...

Not my beef pal, I'm on the 73.
As far as training costs go, check out our training bid. Lots of 717 training so not sure where management is saving money in fact it's gonna cost them a few mil.
Trust me, we know we're not on the same team. That much has been made very clear.

 

[Citrusflyer]

"
I understand that if you bid on an aircraft that no longer exists, you would want the chance to rebid...but that would incur training costs to SWA...you want a piece of some of that money that SWA is saving by not allowing a rebid...well, since we are "all on the same team" you shouldn't have any problem sharing some of those gains with your SWA bros and sis's? Or maybe you would and maybe we are really not on the same team...on this issue...

You got me, chief ... care to 'splain the "saving on training cost" thing?

 

[madjack]

Ok, but as Ty implied, it isn't easy seeing the other guys perspective, but if I had bid with the understanding that the 717 was staying around and then it was taken away, then I would want to rebid (perhaps SWA 737 FO vs 717 CP) in order to get over the partition as soon as I could and get under the SWA CBA...


I think what Britpilot is saying that there will little or no training savings to SWA by NOT conducting another system rebid at this point (with 717s going away)...I thought that it would and perhaps I am wrong...in fact Britpilot is implying that SWA has or will spend millions on training as a result of the first system rebid on the AAI side...

I don't see where SWA is gaining by subleasing the 717, except in divesting itself of an extra airframe that does not fit its business plan...

My point is that wouldn't there have to be a significant gain to SWA for DR going forward to have merit?

What I am seeing here is the AAI pilots seeking CP retention slots and/or pay because the 717 went away...the retention slots and pay protection (in a zero sum world) will cost the SWA pilots...to me that seems unfair. The SWA side voted on SL10, not on verbal agreements between the AAI side and SWA.

From a pilot perspective the loss of the 717 airframe will hurt us all...it may aid the company financially in the long run, but a stronger SWA is in everyone's best interest...

As far as me personally, I just answered the phone when training called for upgrade. As a west coast (OAK) CP I am spared much of the pain of integration to date (that will change I know)...but I fly with many junior FOs (90-103k numbers) who spent years getting SWA mins, interviewed multiple times, bought types, sat in hiring pools and then had thousands of younger AAI pilots put ahead of them as a result of SL10...they are probably just as disillusioned and P.O.'d (if not more) than the AAI pilots...the good news is that the transitioned AAI pilots are professionals!