New Alaska Negotiations Thread

[AKMD80GUY]

I thought I'd start this with the intention of finding out what the rest of us Alaska types think of whats going on. I know that the company and management are in mediated discussions this week with all MEC officers in SEA for these meetings. From what I know the company has moved in our direction but cant say how far. Also was contacted by Wilson Polling today to give them my $.02. It seems as things are finally starting to move.

Talking to the person I know that's involved, the pay rates are close to what was sent to everyone's home that compared the unions and companies proposals. From what I was told, they aren't going to go for the throat on this because it will look unfavorably to the NMB and I agree with that. However it has nothing to do with the companies inability to pay a higher rate. They can and have all but admitted to that.

I also know that some furlough notices have be rescinded and more are to come. I believe that this has to do with the company realizing that they will have trouble staffing the summer schedule as well as being out of reserve pilots in certain bases (LAX).

I think G.S. was the main reason why talks stalled and why the NMB told the company that we would be released for self help by May. This is not speculation, it is fact that the NMB told the company this. I also think this is the reason G.S. was fired and B.T. promoted to President. If he wants us to believe anything he said in his letter to us or anything he may put out in the future, he should be taking the lead to get a contract signed.

The company and its pilots are at a crossroads now. There are a few that will still tow the company line, but those numbers are dwindling. Those of us that have many years left need to make sure our voices are heard. We may not be made whole this time around but we need a giant step in that direction.

Support our Negotiators and help them get what we have not only earned, but what was unjustly taken away by Kasher. We have been silently angry since May, 05. It is time to stop being silent.

 

[Fubijaakr]

From what I know the company has moved in our direction but cant say how far. Also was contacted by Wilson Polling today to give them my $.02. It seems as things are finally starting to move.

I think so, too.

Talking to the person I know that's involved, the pay rates are close to what was sent to everyone's home that compared the unions and companies proposals. From what I was told, they aren't going to go for the throat on this because it will look unfavorably to the NMB and I agree with that.

I would agree with that as well.

I also know that some furlough notices have be rescinded and more are to come. I believe that this has to do with the company realizing that they will have trouble staffing the summer schedule as well as being out of reserve pilots in certain bases (LAX).

Heck, they're cancelling flights out of LAX NOW due to lack of F/O reserve coverage. Summer is going to be bloody if they don't bring some if not all of those guys back. I'm pretty convince the need for furloughs was mere hostage taking.

...the NMB told the company that we would be released for self help by May. This is not speculation, it is fact that the NMB told the company this.

I've heard this as well. I didn't believe it, but obviously the mediator recognized the Company's negotiating tactic...stall. At any rate, if this is true, a big thank-you is owed to the mediator.

The company and its pilots are at a crossroads now. There are a few that will still tow the company line, but those numbers are dwindling. Those of us that have many years left need to make sure our voices are heard. We may not be made whole this time around but we need a giant step in that direction.

You may be surprised how few "toe" the line anymore. Not only are the F/Os radicalized, but most of the Capts (less the 2nd floor/training dept. types) are as well. And I'm also pretty sure that we're chapped enough to reject a CHAOS type strike and go straight to the mattresses.

And if that happens as Spring/Summer approach, it will be a disaster for the Anglers.

Support our Negotiators and help them get what we have not only earned, but what was unjustly taken away by Kasher. We have been silently angry since May, 05. It is time to stop being silent.

I agree, but we've got to be realistic. SWA or bust isn't going to fly. And a knee jerk "NO" vote without reading the entire TA just because we're pissed isn't the way to go either.

As you said, perhaps an incremental increase is better than the "nuclear option" of a strike. I've been on strike and it isn't an action to be taken lightly.

 

[Old School 737]

Crew planning today said that there was going to be a new bid out soon. She said it would most likely affect LAX crew numbers.

Also I thought the $$$ numbers that union sent out to us a few months ago was what they were asking for but some guys have been telling me that those numbers are the lowest we are going to talk? Did not make to much sence to me if we were going to show the C.O. how low we would go? Any one else think this or are those guys miss reading it?

 

[Green Banana]

Best to cool our heals until we see how much LUV gets.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Best to cool our heals until we see how much LUV gets.

I'm not a 100% sure, but I believe LUV's TA calls for a 3%/year pay increase for the term of the contract, 5 years. So at the end of the term, the senior captains should be making over $230/hour.

I am cautiously optimistic at this point, as the union stated. Just because the company finally decided to play by the rules should we fall for their dirty tactics. Yes, we cannot expect to get all of pre-Kasher back, but it better be damn close. No one wants to use the nuclear weapon but no backing down now; we've come too far! I'm sorry, but I don't trust anything that the company turds say or do.

We are losing the market everyday. Just look at what Allegiant is doing out of LAX. We should be flying those routes, but because of our company's arrogance we've lost out once again. A $ short and day late as always.

 

[Mea25000]

Wow I hope you mean the 12 year CA rate at 198hr Alpa was asking for and not the 159hr the company was offering… I was told we are in the 18-20% range for a CA and 25-28% range for the FO. They are probably using profit sharing to get to that number but I sure hope not.

Hopefully they just cancel the furlough and make all that madness go away but I wont hold my breath.

Sounds like maybe a TA to cry about by early next month.

Hopefully not talking about a merger days after that!

As to the SWA comment I can’t imagine we will be with in 20% their new proposal but I sure hope I am wrong! I think I heard they will top out around 235hr 12year CA at the end of it.

 

[AKMD80GUY]

I also heard of a new bid. The way I think it will go down is that all of the CA's that were down graded will be hung out to dry on this next bid. All of the senior FO's that bypassed will now take the upgrade to have some seat protection in case of a merger.

This will set the company back because they will have to train from the beginning all these new CA's. Where as before all that would be needed was a 2 hour sim and SLF to get the down graded guys back up to speed in the left seat. I am sure they will ask the union for relief on this.

I was happy to see a bunch of new retirements. I moved up 47 numbers. The company is also going to be asking for more early outs but worth a better deal to the pilots retiring. Hopefully making them whole with their retirements by not taking a penalty.

As for retro pay, this is a must for a yes vote. I have heard anything from $12,000 for CA's and $6,000 for FO'c to $20,000 across the board. Since we all took basically the same amount in cash pay cut, we should all get the same amount in retro pay. If FO's are going to have to stay in the right seat for more years than before (career stagnation ), we should be able to get some compensation for that.

All told should be an interesting next couple of weeks.

 

[Chief Pilot]

As for retro pay, this is a must for a yes vote. I have heard anything from $12,000 for CA's and $6,000 for FO'c to $20,000 across the board. Since we all took basically the same amount in cash pay cut, we should all get the same amount in retro pay. If FO's are going to have to stay in the right seat for more years than before (career stagnation ), we should be able to get some compensation for that.

$6k would be a slap in the face. Agreed that retro is a must for a yes vote. I'll also vote down anything that gives the company the ability to build 90 hour lines.

I agree with Ih8 that I don't trust these guys one bit and I personally think this is their way of stringing us along. They act like they're bargaining in good faith, show a little movement our direction just so the NMB can't declare an impasse. Hopefully the mediator is as smart as people say he is and won't fall for it if that is indeed management's tactic.

I'm not cautiously anything right now. I'll wait for a TA, read it thoroughly and vote, or I'll be voting for a strike if we get released.

It's also very true about few towing the company line anymore. I haven't flown with one guy lately that made me question whether or not they'd strike if it comes to that.

 

[Singlecoil]

You guys are scaring me.

The only way that we will not get the pay rates the union is asking for is if the company can break a strike. Period. The NMB has made it clear that we will be released and soon.
Does the company have scabs lined up?
Do you really think they will shut the company down for months to break a strike?
This is a profitable company.
It is going to be even more profitable as it gets out from under MD-80 leases and now has a single type fleet. The fuel hedges they purchased at 70 and 80 dollars a barrel were put options, not swaps. That means they can walk away from those positions without having to take delivery like Southwest and others do. HUGE advantage.
But that's fine you live in Seatlle, you should be willing to work for less. How about we just average what everybody else makes and take that? Sound good?

 

[Mamma]

I think G.S. was the main reason why talks stalled and why the NMB told the company that we would be released for self help by May. This is not speculation, it is fact that the NMB told the company this. I also think this is the reason G.S. was fired and B.T. promoted to President. If he wants us to believe anything he said in his letter to us or anything he may put out in the future, he should be taking the lead to get a contract signed.

I honestly believe G.S. was a huge impediment to our contract but the buck stopped with B.Ayers. The reason I heard G.S. was booted was because he is an unethical S.O.B. He got caught with his hand in the cookie jar in regards to Row 44. Seemed he was trying to line his greedy pockets with unethical stock purchases and insider info. But, you just can't fire a guy who has so much insider knowledge of our company without ramifications so he was given a nice package and an agreement that he would say no bad about the airline in return for the same towards him. I may be wrong about this but it seems the shoe fits.

 

[Mookie]

You guys are lucky...I've flown with guys who have said that "striking is stupid" which leads me to believe that they'd cross. I've also heard there has been a contingent of guys tell the 2nd floor they'd cross. guys new to the 37 if you know what I mean?? I've also flown with guys who had no idea that we were furloughing/downgrading, and thought it was a great idea to build their lines to 85 hrs, and pick up VSA trips. Oh well...I'm sure glad that the "newhires" over the past four years are the problem at this airline. give me a ********************in' break!!!

Mookie

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

How about we just average what everybody else makes and take that? Sound good?

You are kidding, right? If not, grow a pair. This isn't give a little, take a little deal anymore. I'm tired of giving.
I'm fully aware of the consequences of a strike but there comes a time when one needs to stand up, even if it means losing EVERYTHING.

 

[ATLboeing]

Just curious, how long have you guys been in negotiations?
Glad to hear you may be getting close. Good luck.

...and when your negotiating committee is done, can you send them to Atlanta to show ours how to work?

 

[Mamma]

You are kidding, right? If not, grow a pair. This isn't give a little, take a little deal anymore. I'm tired of giving.
I'm fully aware of the consequences of a strike but there comes a time when one needs to stand up, even if it means losing EVERYTHING.

I think Singlecoil was being sarcastic or meant something else.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

You are right. My apologies to Singlecoil. I missed his sarcasm. I've been a little sensitive to things lately..... you know, like flying with some koolaid drinking old farts who won't think twice about putting their young under the bus. I'm so tired of hearing these guys say, "This is it for me. I can't make what I'm making here elsewhere. You are young enough to get a job somewhere else and start over, but I can't just pick up and do that". Fortunately, they are the minority but they are out there. They've been bent over so many times that their a$$es are numb.

 

[AKMD80GUY]

AP
Independent Alaska Air can't rule out merger
Wednesday February 18, 5:01 pm ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Airlines Writer
Alaska Air execs say they're focused on staying independent, but can't
rule out future merger

ATLANTA (AP) -- Alaska Air Group Inc., operator of Alaska Airlines and
Horizon Air and a partner of Delta Air Lines Inc., would consider a
combination with another carrier if the right deal was proposed, but for
now is committed to its independence and isn't thinking about a merger,
executives said Wednesday.

ADVERTISEMENT
In a series of wide-ranging interviews with The Associated Press,
several senior executives would not say if the Seattle-based airline
operator has had merger discussions with Delta or anyone else.

But, they all said a combination is not on their radar screen right now.

"Every year there's been a rumor about who is going to buy Alaska and
here we are doing well as an independent company," said Bill Ayer, chief
executive of the parent company.

That media and investor buzz heated up after Atlanta-based Delta, the
world's biggest airline operator, and Alaska Air Group announced in
November an expanded marketing alliance. Delta and Alaska Air said they
would offer customers connecting service to more than 50 destinations
to-and-from Los Angeles, more than 70 destinations to-and-from Seattle,
more than 30 destinations to-and-from Portland, Ore., and nearly 20
destinations to-and-from San Francisco.

When fully phased in, Delta and its international partners are expected
to be the main provider to Alaska Air customers of international service
to-and-from those four U.S. cities.

Delta's chief, Richard Anderson, said at the time that he had not talked
to Ayer about a combination. Delta has not elaborated on the issue since
then.

Ayer would not say Wednesday whether there has been interest from any
airline in buying Alaska Air Group. He did say that the airline can't
close the door on the idea of a merger if one was proposed that was the
right fit for Alaska Air Group. Ayer said his company's key focus is on
its employees, its customers and its investors.

"No company can rule that out," Ayer said. "You don't know where the
world is headed."

Ayer said that Alaska Air Group enjoys being an independent carrier. "If
there is a better alternative, we will look at that alternative," he said.

Brad Tilden, president of Alaska Airlines, said the airline industry is
in a state of significant flux with demand for air travel eroding as the
U.S. economic downturn has worsened. He said his airline needs to
continue to change with the industry.

"I believe we will do that, and there is no reason at all we can't do
wonderfully as an independent entity," Tilden said.

Ben Minicucci, who handles day-to-day operations at Alaska Airlines as
its chief operating officer, said he couldn't predict what will happen
to his carrier in the future.

But, he said, "If we run the company the way we're supposed to, we'll
remain independent."

Credit Suisse analyst Daniel McKenzie said in a research note in October
that his firm had not ruled out the possibility of further merger and
acquisition activity for Delta in the future. Delta acquired Northwest
Airlines in October. He said in October that Alaska Air Group or New
York-based JetBlue Airways Corp. "remain appealing targets, both with
attractive assets and strategic positioning that would enable DAL/NWA to
better compete with what we consider is an inevitable CAL/UAUA
(Continental/United) combination sometime down the road."

The buzz about Alaska Air Group is not surprising considering its strong
stock performance relative to many other airlines. Alaska Air Group's
stock is currently trading near its 52-week high. A spokeswoman said the
company also has posted an annual profit on an adjusted basis for the
last five fiscal years, while several bigger carriers posted big losses.

Executives said Wednesday that Alaska Air Group is focused on several
customer service initiatives and is using technology to improve the
customer experience. Like other airlines, it also has been cutting
capacity to weather the economic downturn, though it has not cut as much
capacity as some other carriers.

Tilden said that despite the economic downturn, Alaska Airlines will be
increasing its advertising budget in 2009 to try to lure in customers.

He also said that while fees for services that were once free have
become an important way for his airline to generate revenue, Alaska
Airlines has been looking for the right balance.

"Our thinking is we want to charge for services that make sense for our
customers," Tilden said. "Clearly, there would be some things that would
be off limits, but I don't think I want to talk about specifics right now."

 

[Chief Pilot]

How many decades now has there been talk of a merger? As with everything in this industry, you can't believe it until you see it. We'll still be speculating on who's going to buy us ten years from now.

 

[Going2Baja]

So what happens next if the furloughs are canceled? Where do these guys go March 2nd? What about us that got displaced? I'm about to move my car and have to grieve the expense. Can they just cancel the bid? What about the guys that wanted to move - will they be stuck? Have the downgrades started? The only thing I get from my union guy is that the unions is working on these questions....JOKE!

Baja.

 

[Fubijaakr]

They cancel the furloughs everyone stays where they are now. In '92 they "extended" the furlough 30 days 3 times then cancelled it.

 

[Going2Baja]

In 92' were there displacements and moves planned as well. Talk about CHAOS.....How can anyone plan for anything. My house is in total turmoil!

The VERY sad thing about all of this, is that if and when we get a contract the Co won't be forgiven for their past actions. GS really F'd things up eh?

Baja.