New Alaska Airlines base

[Mookie]

Ak737, baja, et al...,

riddle me this...how many etops related sea layovers have ANC and lax done in the last 2 years? I can tell you that as a sea reserve pilot, I've had more than my share of lax/sna and ANC layovers to cover flying y'all would have done out of your bases. Wouldn't all of you guys in those bases rather spend more nights at home (lax ANC) than sea??? This isn't about owning flying. It's putting the pieces where they should be. That probably will hurt sone feelings but considering the majority of departures are out of sea, especially etops, it makes sense to have a base there.

We all need to grow up and stop infighting.

Mookie

 

[Going2Baja]

Agreed Mookie. I could really care less about the ETOPS - I'm just hoping to keep flying in LA. As for the LA reps...I've talked to both at length
& trust them completely. Time to wait & see what is tied to the TA.

Baja.

 

[AK737FO]

Confusing time yes, but follow along. The PDX base is in the bag -period. SEA reps (both) and the LAX Capt rep voted to kill the LAX base in favor of the SEA base keeping as many lines as possible for SEA (this is not logical I know, but they did it anyhow). The LAX base will pay the greatest price once SEA has ETOPS.
We are not "giving up a little" to put ETOPS is SEA. We are giving SEA ETOPS away for free for no reason other than to try to save a few lines of flying for SEA (in theory only) ! Do you comprehend that - we are giving it away for free!!!!!
Our management is laughing all the way to the bank. They asked for SEA ETOPS, they put out a reducion bid for SEA. Our SEA reps wet themselves like a red headed school girls, and gave them anything they wanted for free - without even any protections of base size or stage length - please O please don't take any lines away from SEA - we promise we will be good little girls- and Bill smiles because he knows what a bunch of sissys he has in SEA...
We are laying LAX on the alter to slit their throats for Seattle's benifit. If LAX has no ETOPS flying, how many lines would there be? Do you think that it might hit the LAX base harder than 70 to 80 pilot reductions out of SEA? Just curious - when you are talking about bases and the amount of impact - does it matter if you are dealing with numbers of pilots or the percentages of a base impacted? The SEA LEC is about to impart a huge percentage reduction on LAX for a lesser number redution on SEA. Is that the right thing to do? ANC has already taken 22% (if I remember right) in the shorts and nobody gave a poop! But if you want to cut SEA by about 19% or 20% (and many of these pilots already live in the PDX area and can't wait for the base to open and whose lives will be much better without having to commute to SEA) the sky is falling!!! The SEA tears start, the whinning, the little girl tantrums....
Remember - we didn't have to do a dang thing! We could have put this on the shelf for years. The SEA LEC in a panic little girl mode pushed this and used a roll call to get their way. The sad thing is that it will make no differance - the SEA reps are just to dumb to realize it. They will still loose flying, PDX will still happen, and they have harmed the MEC in a a bad bad way - at least until we get the SEA loosers and the LAX looser out of there. SEA will screw LAX and ANC to get their desires of more lines and no pain and no reductions. Is that healthy for the group? Is that what is in your heart? I wouldn't / couldn't feel good about my advancement on the back of my fellow Alaska pilot. I just wouldn't go there. It is just wrong to have your MEC willinging advance one base at the expense of another!!!!!!!!!!!!! When the time comes - VOTE NO ON THE SEA ETOPS !!!!!
If this pases MemRat, I guess we can chaulk it up to to many gummers and to many Latte drinking tassle wearin cream puffs who might wet themselves if they had to bid 250 lines of flying rather than 200... Heaven help us, sorry for the three page run on sentence and good night!

 

[Mookie]

Confusing time yes, but follow along. The PDX base is in the bag -period. SEA reps (both) and the LAX Capt rep voted to kill the LAX base in favor of the SEA base keeping as many lines as possible for SEA (this is not logical I know, but they did it anyhow). The LAX base will pay the greatest price once SEA has ETOPS.
We are not "giving up a little" to put ETOPS is SEA. We are giving SEA ETOPS away for free for no reason other than to try to save a few lines of flying for SEA (in theory only) ! Do you comprehend that - we are giving it away for free!!!!! Our management is laughing all the way to the bank. They asked for SEA ETOPS, they put out a reducion bid for SEA. Our SEA reps wet themselves like a red headed shool girls, and gave them anything they wanted for free - without even any protections of base size or stage length - please O please don't take any lines away from SEA - we promise we will be good little girls- and Bill smiles because he knows what a bunch of sissys he has in SEA... We are laying LAX on the alter to slit their throats for Seattle's benifit. If LAX has no ETOPS flying, how many lines would there be? Do you think that it might hit the LAX base harder than 70 to 80 pilot reductions out of SEA? Just curious - when you are talking about bases and the amount of impact - does it matter if you are dealing with numbers of pilots or the percentages of a base impacted? The SEA LEC is about to impart a huge percentage reduction on LAX for a lesser number redution on SEA. Is that the right thing to do? ANC has already taken 22% (if I remember right) in the shorts and nobody gave a poop! But if you want to cut SEA by about 19% or 20% (many of these pilots already live in the PDX area and can't wait for the base to open and whose lives will be much better without having to commute to SEA) the sky is falling!!! The SEA tears start, the whinning, the little girl tantrums....
Remember - we didn't have to do a dang thing! We could have put this on the shelf for years. The SEA LEC in a panic little girl mode pushed this and used a roll call to get their way. The sad thing is that it will make no differance - the SEA reps are just to dumb to realize it. They will still loose flying, PDX will still happen, and they have harmed the MEC in a a bad bad way - at least until we get the SEA loosers and the LAX looser out of there. SEA will screw LAX and ANC to get their desires of more lines and no pain and no reductions. Is that healthy for the group? Is that what is in your heart? I wouldn't / couldn't feel good about my advancement on the back of my fellow Alaska pilot. I just wouldn't go there. It is just wrong to have your MEC willinging advance one base at the expense of another!!!!!!!!!!!!! When the time comes - VOTE NO ON THE SEA ETOPS !!!!!
If this pases MemRat, I guess we can chaulk it up to to many gummers and to many Latte drinking tassle wearin cream puffs who might wet themselves if they had to bid 200 lines of flying rather than 250... Heaven help us, sorry for the three page run on sentence and good night!

--"And while I'm here, Charlie is out there getting stronger...":laugh:

first of all...it's LOSER....LOOSER is what your...nevermind, i'm not going to get sucked into this.

good luck. I'm guessing you don't represent the majority of great pilots our GROUP has up in ANC, and that I'm sure to fly with as soon as I get bumped into YOUR base. God forbid I get the line you wanted. I'm sure I'll be considered a SEA LOOSER... :laugh:

Mookie

 

[QCappy]

AK737FO,

You're funny. You spout off as if you know what you're talking about. How do you know we didn't get anything? How do you know your base wont stay the same size? How do you know what the agreement is...because it hasn't happened yet.

The response to me will be, "How do you know that we did get some of this?" Just wait. We will know soon enough. I think you might have to eat a GIANT piece of humble pie in the near future.

By the way, mommy is calling from the kitchen. Your warm milk is ready.

 

[Mea25000]

AK

Wow... can you say used to be CA bumped back to FO or SQ but really FO then about to get CA bid again but now no way... Talk about school girl look at you cry and all you really care about is you. Yeah, sounds great lets grow ANC with a bunch of pilots that live in SEA and LAX and force them up there so you can get that CA bid. Good news this will pass with flying colors and ANC will have 39 lines LAX will have 65 lines PDX will get 30 and SEA will have 310...

 

[AK737FO]

AK737FO,

You're funny. You spout off as if you know what you're talking about. How do you know we didn't get anything? How do you know your base wont stay the same size? How do you know what the agreement is...because it hasn't happened yet.

The response to me will be, "How do you know that we did get some of this?" Just wait. We will know soon enough. I think you might have to eat a GIANT piece of humble pie in the near future.

By the way, mommy is calling from the kitchen. Your warm milk is ready.

Yes guys I have been passionate about this, but not because it effects me or my base. I just hate to see our MEC put one bases needs in front of the other.

I didn't make this stuff up. I'm just trying to spread the word on what happened and why. My base will not stay the same size, it will grow! The company has said it will grow and I believe them. The company has also said that LAX will shrink because of this, and I believe them. This will not hurt my base at all, so I guess I don't have a dog in the fight other than to say that if I were an LAX pilot I would be pretty torqued.

True, the agreement has not happened yet. But why would the company turn it down? We gave it to them for free. I think that the only thing in there that they may not like is a requirement to recall 20 pilots from furlough by 12/31/10. I suppose the company could turn this deal down because of that but I really doubt it. So does the LEC reps and the MEC.

I suppose it is possible that it will fail MemRat, but my personal hunch is that it will pass. SEA is hungry to fly in a straight line for 6 hours so they can have a cold one on the beach. SEA has the votes so they will get what they want. I don't envy the LAX guys and the storm that is coming - I wish our MEC and LEC's had not taken us down this path - we sure didn't have to go there...

 

[sf340flyer]

Yes guys I have been passionate about this, but not because it effects me or my base. I just hate to see our MEC put one bases needs in front of the other.

I guess its called representing it's membership. GT needs to get over himself and realize that that each SEA rep is losing more members than he represents. It's "your" LEC that has caused the problems. Not the MEC as a whole.

BTW, do a little math and find out how much the SEA base has shrunk. Hint it's A LOT more than 20% and that is BEFORE the PDX bid.

 

[AK737FO]

How is the ANC LEC and the LAX FO Rep causing any problems? They were trying to protect LAX from the shrinking that will happen when ETOPS lines are pulled from LAX and put into SEA. They were trying to get some protections for the pilot group as a whole, not just "wide open full throttle what ever you want for free" that took place.

The PDX base and the SEA reduction is going to happen with or without a SEA ETOPS agreement according to our management. I have been told that the SEA reps and the LAX Capt rep think that there may be a chance that the company will cancel the bid if they can get SEA ETOPS ASAP. The time line is off just enough that it is reasonable to assume that the PDX base will open and the SEA reductions will happen regardless. Of course management is free to cancel the bid if they want, but they keep saying that it will stand.

So, I still don't see how the ANC reps and the LAX FO rep are part of the problem. Really, there is no problem if we simply do nothing and leave the ETOPS flying to LAX and ANC. We are not in section 6, there was no reason to give SEA ETOPS for free. If we give it to them for free, the PDX base will still open and the SEA reductions will still happen according to our managment. So why did we do this again????

 

[Mookie]

AK73,

LAX will shrink because of the amount of PDX commuters and the fact that there is no ETOPS flying out of LAX!!!! i'm guestimating that there are more pdx commuters to LAX than you realize. So, using your reasoning, you'd rather keep LAX the same size, so that ANC and SEA fo's have to now commute to LAX to backfill the flying going to PDX just in order to keep the LAX base the same size? THAT makes 0 sense!!! If LAX and ANC stay the same size, we then have a ********************load of SEA crews overnighting in SNA/LAX and a ********************load of SEA crews in ANC....and a ********************load of ANC and LAX crews laying over in SEA. get the picture???

BTW...Isn't the MEC an ANC captain?

From a no latte drinking, no tassell wearing, hopefully non-creampuff SEA pilot. Nice try with the cliche' though.

Mookie

 

[QCappy]

Just because a SEA ETOPS base opens doesn't mean LAX or ANC will shrink. I heard that there was a provision that would freeze the current base sizes to the current level or higher for one year. They can just shift some of the lower 48/SE Alaska flying around to counteract shifting SEA guys to an ETOPS base. Flying is forced to different bases all the time to account for the size of each base and the current schedule. In the past LAX has done many transcons, etc., and that can be done again. There is always an ebb and flow to the trips as time goes on.

As far as why we should give the company an ETOPS base. For the same reason they are opening a PDX base; it makes the flying more effecient and more cost effective. Sure that's probably not a good thing for us furloughees in the short term, but in the long run it will be good for everyone. It allows the company to put the flying where it should be from a cost standpoint, and allowing us to reach our profitibility goals. Honestly, I'd rather be out a little longer if it means coming back to an even stronger company.

 

[sf340flyer]

.

So, I still don't see how the ANC reps and the LAX FO rep are part of the problem. Really, there is no problem if we simply do nothing and leave the ETOPS flying to LAX and ANC. We are not in section 6, there was no reason to give SEA ETOPS for free. If we give it to them for free, the PDX base will still open and the SEA reductions will still happen according to our managment. So why did we do this again????

Because you are relying on rumors instead of facts.

I find it ironic that you wish to protect the LAX size, but you have no regard for the SEA pilots that are being forced from their homes. Bottom line, the company has run many different scenarios that have equal cost options for them. They wish to have SEA ETOPS, as it will give them the most flexibility for the future, but they have an equal cost solution for the short term. It is going to be up to the us to pick which option.

There is only one time a union has a position to negotiate from, and that is a release to self help. This will never happen as we are outside of Section 6. Actually why don't you ask your reps what the intent language of the ETOPS base discussion.

On a personal note, I am sick and tired of ANC pilots thinking that they are better than everyone else at this airline. You have to remember that your base makes up 13% of our pilot group. You don't run the show. DEAL WITH IT!

 

[av8instyle]

BTW...Isn't the MEC an ANC captain?

From a no latte drinking, no tassell wearing, hopefully non-creampuff SEA pilot. Nice try with the cliche' though.

Mookie

Yes he is....but he lives in Washington and rarely flies...union business and all.

 

[av8instyle]

On a personal note, I am sick and tired of ANC pilots thinking that they are better than everyone else at this airline. You have to remember that your base makes up 13% of our pilot group. You don't run the show. DEAL WITH IT!

perception is reality.

 

[Old School 737]

They must be really short crews. There is a premium trip, 3 day with a PVR layover in open time. What is going on here? and I thought after 12noon you could not pick up stuff and it had to go to a Reserve guy anyway?