New Alaska Airlines base

[densoo]

Must be nice to belong to a company planning for the future.

Alaska Airlines plans to add a new base to its system on June 1. Last week, the airline issued a bid creating a Portland, Oregon, base. The bid also contains an increase in first officers in Anchorage and a decrease in the number of pilots in Seattle and Los Angeles. Currently, Alaska’s pilots are based out of Seattle, Anchorage, and Los Angeles.

 

[StopNTSing]

Didn't they close the PDX base just a few years ago?

 

[AK737FO]

No, the PDX base will happen on June 1, even though the SEA LEC reps and the LAX Capt Rep want to kill it. 3 of the 6 voting reps want PDX to die in order to save all the lines they can for SEA. The SEA reps position is "to heck with the other bases, we want every line we can grab for ourselves, regardless of what we have to give away to secure it." The LAX Capt who voted for SEA ETOPS must be smoking crack, because there is no logic behind his gut feeling that if LAX no longer has to do ETOPS, then the company will grow the base into mexico. I might ask, with what extra jets? With what extra pilots? LAX will shrink, the company has told the MEC it will shrink, if there is a SEA ETOPS base, and LAX pilots can thank their own Capt rep for giving it to them for FREE.
Our contract says that we had to talk, in good faith, with the company about SEA ETOPS. These three guys (Both SEA reps and the LAX Capt rep) were determined to give away anything and everything in order to save as many lines as they could for SEA.
It is sad to see our MEC come to this - gloves off, roll call and BS casting the tie breaker. Why do some of us want to give away the farm? Suck it up SEA. When this thing comes to Mem Rat, and it will - vote NO and send these three whimps packin.
To the new PDX base - make sure you get your own council because these SEA guys want to slit your throats!

 

[GuppyWN]

Sounds like us and Dallas, I mean Mecca. After 10 years I still find the occasional alarm clock in Florida or LA set to central time.

If I never hear "well in Dallas we..........." it will be too soon.

Gup

 

[SRMairlines]

Whatever this agreement is it will be with us for a number of years.

It would very smart to vote in a POS knowing that.

 

[N1atEcon]

Sounds like us and Dallas, I mean Mecca. After 10 years I still find the occasional alarm clock in Florida or LA set to central time.

Wait till you find one with the alarm going off at 4 a.m. central under your bed.

 

[HAL]

Guys, every airline I've worked for had the same arguments; "I want all the flying in MY base, and to heck with the rest of you." Yet when the new base opened, it ended up being a good thing for everyone, as it provided that most rare commodity - choice. More choice in domicile, aircraft, seat, routes, are all good things in your career. Don't throw it away by being short sighted.

HAL

 

[Mookie]

No, the PDX base will happen on June 1, even though the SEA LEC reps and the LAX Capt Rep want to kill it. 3 of the 6 voting reps want PDX to die in order to save all the lines they can for SEA. The SEA reps position is "to heck with the other bases, we want every line we can grab for ourselves, regardless of what we have to give away to secure it." The LAX Capt who voted for SEA ETOPS must be smoking crack, because there is no logic behind his gut feeling that if LAX no longer has to do ETOPS, then the company will grow the base into mexico. I might ask, with what extra jets? With what extra pilots? LAX will shrink, the company has told the MEC it will shrink, if there is a SEA ETOPS base, and LAX pilots can thank their own Capt rep for giving it to them for FREE.
Our contract says that we had to talk, in good faith, with the company about SEA ETOPS. These three guys (Both SEA reps and the LAX Capt rep) were determined to give away anything and everything in order to save as many lines as they could for SEA.
It is sad to see our MEC come to this - gloves off, roll call and BS casting the tie breaker. Why do some of us want to give away the farm? Suck it up SEA. When this thing comes to Mem Rat, and it will - vote NO and send these three whimps packin.
To the new PDX base - make sure you get your own council because these SEA guys want to slit your throats!

So much for solidarity. I didn't know any base "owned" any flying at all, although I'm sure not too many guys in the lower 48 will be pining for the arctic stuff anytime soon. we're obviously not good enough pilots to handle it.

This is starting to sound like all of the DCI regionals arguing that it's THEIR flying (for delta) out of ATL, SLC, CVG, etc. it feels like highschool.

Mookie

 

[Going2Baja]

No, the PDX base will happen on June 1, even though the SEA LEC reps and the LAX Capt Rep want to kill it. 3 of the 6 voting reps want PDX to die in order to save all the lines they can for SEA. The SEA reps position is "to heck with the other bases, we want every line we can grab for ourselves, regardless of what we have to give away to secure it." The LAX Capt who voted for SEA ETOPS must be smoking crack, because there is no logic behind his gut feeling that if LAX no longer has to do ETOPS, then the company will grow the base into mexico. I might ask, with what extra jets? With what extra pilots? LAX will shrink, the company has told the MEC it will shrink, if there is a SEA ETOPS base, and LAX pilots can thank their own Capt rep for giving it to them for FREE.
Our contract says that we had to talk, in good faith, with the company about SEA ETOPS. These three guys (Both SEA reps and the LAX Capt rep) were determined to give away anything and everything in order to save as many lines as they could for SEA.
It is sad to see our MEC come to this - gloves off, roll call and BS casting the tie breaker. Why do some of us want to give away the farm? Suck it up SEA. When this thing comes to Mem Rat, and it will - vote NO and send these three whimps packin.
To the new PDX base - make sure you get your own council because these SEA guys want to slit your throats!

No offense AK, but as a friend of mine says "SUCK IT!" The LAX Capt rep is doing the best he can to save LAX seats...Below is his reply to his vote:

Baja.

************************************************************

ALA C-63 Pilots,
Earlier this week your MEC decided, by a vote that was not unanimous, to send one last counter offer to management regarding the Seattle ETOPS base. Since then a number of statements have been circulating that grossly mischaracterize our offer and ignore the position we are in.
First and foremost, it is important for you to understand that the purpose of the meeting was to provide direction for a counterproposal, and NOT to ratify any deals. It is also important for you to realize that we were ending up in the position we are currently in regardless of how your C-63 representatives voted on this issue. Either by majority rule, split decision-tie breaker, which is what happened, or Roll Call vote the outcome was going to be the same. If management accepts our counterproposal, your MEC will next vote whether to make it a Tentative Agreement. Should that happen, it will then be sent on to you for membership ratification.
So, why should we do anything? Unlike Section 6 negotiations, this is not a choice between a SEA ETOPS base or status quo, and change, driven by operational and marketing goals, is coming to our base regardless of the actions we take. The company wants to find a more efficient way to fly the ETOPS trips than LAX currently provides. Two options are, ANC, and a possible SEA ETOPS base or ANC and PDX. This is a business decision they are going to make and they are going to proceed one way or another. The new base in PDX serves as a clear reminder that management can open bases and move pilots with few restrictions.
You can be assured that over the course of these negotiations we have proposed many options to improve the quality of flying in our base as well as the quality of life for all Alaska pilots, including those on furlough. Since we are still in negotiations those details can’t be shared at this time but rest assured we have offered proposals containing growth, retention of partial ETOPS flying, base size protection, and recalls, just to mention a few. Although it is obvious at this point some of those goals won’t be met we continue to work on others. I know that just like Section 6 negotiations, it is extremely frustrating for you to not know the details of agreements that can have such a huge impact on your lives. I understand your frustrations and hope that in the near future you will have the details to vote on. In the meantime, I want to reassure you we are working our hardest to deliver you the best possible T/A to vote on.
These ETOPS negotiations have been a very long and often frustrating and emotional process, and we know a great many of you are very concerned about how you and your family might be affected not only by ETOPS but also our new PDX base. As was the case with Section 6 negotiations, it is your continued trust and patience that will ensure that we reach as successful outcome as possible.
If you haven’t already please take the time to read the latest Negotiators Notepad below.
As a reminder our next regularly scheduled C-63 LEC meeting is march 25th. A meeting notice will be coming out confirming the time and location.

***********************************************************

 

[AK737FO]

The LAX Capt rep is not doing the best he can to save LAX seats - he is actually giving seats away as fast as he can! Call the LAX FO rep - find out the truth! If LAX looses ETOPS, then LAX will shrink. PERIOD! The LAX Capt rep flopped on his decision, and actually voted for the quickest way possible to shrink the LAX base.
Keep in mind, the MEC was under no obligation to do anything, except to meet in good faith and discuss SEA ETOPS. The SEA guys are in a panic, doing everything they can to kill or at least shrink a PDX base so as to keep as many lines of flying as possible in SEA. The LAX Capt rep flops on his position and somehow comes up with the idea that no ETOPS in the LAX base would be a good thing for the base. I just don't get it. The ANC reps actually tried to call the meeting to a close - the MEC could have just walked away from this and let it stew for a bit - but the SEA reps jumped on it and rather than close the meeting peacfully, they pushed for a roll call on getting this POS sent to the company ASAP. Why? Power / line grab, pure and simple. The company will accept this offer - why shouldn't they ? It gave them SEA ETOPS for free. The PDX base will still open. The MEC will probably hang again on a 3 -3 split, but eventually it will come to Membership Rat - then we get to hopefully turn this mess down and do what is right for the whole pilot group, not just SEA. I'm sure LAX and ANC will do the right thing, the question is - will SEA ? We will find out in about a month.

 

[Green Banana]

No, the PDX base will happen on June 1, even though the SEA LEC reps and the LAX Capt Rep want to kill it. 3 of the 6 voting reps want PDX to die in order to save all the lines they can for SEA. To the new PDX base - make sure you get your own council because these SEA guys want to slit your throats!

I think you have confused the PDX base with the SEA-ETOPS base. The PDX base is in the bag. It is already in our contract. We cannot vote on it and the MEC, LEC, and pilots have nothing to say about it. I agree that they are related, but independent issues. The 3-6 vote and bickering is about the rules that will govern the SEA-ETOPS base. That must be negotiated with the union as the contract requires. The MEC could say "This way or no way" to the company, but it is not happening that way. We are giving up a little to get the Hawaii flying out of SEA.

 

[TNPILOT]

Any word on recalls?

 

[turbodriver]

Yeah, there aren't any. At least for now.....

 

[QCappy]

The LAX Capt rep is not doing the best he can to save LAX seats....

I'm sorry man, but all I hear from you is, "Wah, wah, wah...I was given ETOPS in the first place. It's mine. You can't have any. I'm going to tell my mommy!"

Seriously?

 

[Fubijaakr]

To the new PDX base - make sure you get your own council because these SEA guys want to slit your throats!

Well, I don't know about that, but I've already talked to the incoming MEC Chairman about a PDX LEC. The first order of business will be to petition the MEC and ALPA National for a PDX LEC.

 

[Mookie]

Ak737, baja, et al...,

riddle me this...how many etops related sea layovers have ANC and lax done in the last 2 years? I can tell you that as a sea reserve pilot, I've had more than my share of lax/sna and ANC layovers to cover flying y'all would have done out of your bases. Wouldn't all of you guys in those bases rather spend more nights at home (lax ANC) than sea??? This isn't about owning flying. It's putting the pieces where they should be. That probably will hurt sone feelings but considering the majority of departures are out of sea, especially etops, it makes sense to have a base there.

We all need to grow up and stop infighting.

Mookie

 

[Going2Baja]

Agreed Mookie. I could really care less about the ETOPS - I'm just hoping to keep flying in LA. As for the LA reps...I've talked to both at length
& trust them completely. Time to wait & see what is tied to the TA.

Baja.

 

[AK737FO]

Confusing time yes, but follow along. The PDX base is in the bag -period. SEA reps (both) and the LAX Capt rep voted to kill the LAX base in favor of the SEA base keeping as many lines as possible for SEA (this is not logical I know, but they did it anyhow). The LAX base will pay the greatest price once SEA has ETOPS.
We are not "giving up a little" to put ETOPS is SEA. We are giving SEA ETOPS away for free for no reason other than to try to save a few lines of flying for SEA (in theory only) ! Do you comprehend that - we are giving it away for free!!!!!
Our management is laughing all the way to the bank. They asked for SEA ETOPS, they put out a reducion bid for SEA. Our SEA reps wet themselves like a red headed school girls, and gave them anything they wanted for free - without even any protections of base size or stage length - please O please don't take any lines away from SEA - we promise we will be good little girls- and Bill smiles because he knows what a bunch of sissys he has in SEA...
We are laying LAX on the alter to slit their throats for Seattle's benifit. If LAX has no ETOPS flying, how many lines would there be? Do you think that it might hit the LAX base harder than 70 to 80 pilot reductions out of SEA? Just curious - when you are talking about bases and the amount of impact - does it matter if you are dealing with numbers of pilots or the percentages of a base impacted? The SEA LEC is about to impart a huge percentage reduction on LAX for a lesser number redution on SEA. Is that the right thing to do? ANC has already taken 22% (if I remember right) in the shorts and nobody gave a poop! But if you want to cut SEA by about 19% or 20% (and many of these pilots already live in the PDX area and can't wait for the base to open and whose lives will be much better without having to commute to SEA) the sky is falling!!! The SEA tears start, the whinning, the little girl tantrums....
Remember - we didn't have to do a dang thing! We could have put this on the shelf for years. The SEA LEC in a panic little girl mode pushed this and used a roll call to get their way. The sad thing is that it will make no differance - the SEA reps are just to dumb to realize it. They will still loose flying, PDX will still happen, and they have harmed the MEC in a a bad bad way - at least until we get the SEA loosers and the LAX looser out of there. SEA will screw LAX and ANC to get their desires of more lines and no pain and no reductions. Is that healthy for the group? Is that what is in your heart? I wouldn't / couldn't feel good about my advancement on the back of my fellow Alaska pilot. I just wouldn't go there. It is just wrong to have your MEC willinging advance one base at the expense of another!!!!!!!!!!!!! When the time comes - VOTE NO ON THE SEA ETOPS !!!!!
If this pases MemRat, I guess we can chaulk it up to to many gummers and to many Latte drinking tassle wearin cream puffs who might wet themselves if they had to bid 250 lines of flying rather than 200... Heaven help us, sorry for the three page run on sentence and good night!

 

[Mookie]

Confusing time yes, but follow along. The PDX base is in the bag -period. SEA reps (both) and the LAX Capt rep voted to kill the LAX base in favor of the SEA base keeping as many lines as possible for SEA (this is not logical I know, but they did it anyhow). The LAX base will pay the greatest price once SEA has ETOPS.
We are not "giving up a little" to put ETOPS is SEA. We are giving SEA ETOPS away for free for no reason other than to try to save a few lines of flying for SEA (in theory only) ! Do you comprehend that - we are giving it away for free!!!!! Our management is laughing all the way to the bank. They asked for SEA ETOPS, they put out a reducion bid for SEA. Our SEA reps wet themselves like a red headed shool girls, and gave them anything they wanted for free - without even any protections of base size or stage length - please O please don't take any lines away from SEA - we promise we will be good little girls- and Bill smiles because he knows what a bunch of sissys he has in SEA... We are laying LAX on the alter to slit their throats for Seattle's benifit. If LAX has no ETOPS flying, how many lines would there be? Do you think that it might hit the LAX base harder than 70 to 80 pilot reductions out of SEA? Just curious - when you are talking about bases and the amount of impact - does it matter if you are dealing with numbers of pilots or the percentages of a base impacted? The SEA LEC is about to impart a huge percentage reduction on LAX for a lesser number redution on SEA. Is that the right thing to do? ANC has already taken 22% (if I remember right) in the shorts and nobody gave a poop! But if you want to cut SEA by about 19% or 20% (many of these pilots already live in the PDX area and can't wait for the base to open and whose lives will be much better without having to commute to SEA) the sky is falling!!! The SEA tears start, the whinning, the little girl tantrums....
Remember - we didn't have to do a dang thing! We could have put this on the shelf for years. The SEA LEC in a panic little girl mode pushed this and used a roll call to get their way. The sad thing is that it will make no differance - the SEA reps are just to dumb to realize it. They will still loose flying, PDX will still happen, and they have harmed the MEC in a a bad bad way - at least until we get the SEA loosers and the LAX looser out of there. SEA will screw LAX and ANC to get their desires of more lines and no pain and no reductions. Is that healthy for the group? Is that what is in your heart? I wouldn't / couldn't feel good about my advancement on the back of my fellow Alaska pilot. I just wouldn't go there. It is just wrong to have your MEC willinging advance one base at the expense of another!!!!!!!!!!!!! When the time comes - VOTE NO ON THE SEA ETOPS !!!!!
If this pases MemRat, I guess we can chaulk it up to to many gummers and to many Latte drinking tassle wearin cream puffs who might wet themselves if they had to bid 200 lines of flying rather than 250... Heaven help us, sorry for the three page run on sentence and good night!

--"And while I'm here, Charlie is out there getting stronger...":laugh:

first of all...it's LOSER....LOOSER is what your...nevermind, i'm not going to get sucked into this.

good luck. I'm guessing you don't represent the majority of great pilots our GROUP has up in ANC, and that I'm sure to fly with as soon as I get bumped into YOUR base. God forbid I get the line you wanted. I'm sure I'll be considered a SEA LOOSER... :laugh:

Mookie

 

[QCappy]

AK737FO,

You're funny. You spout off as if you know what you're talking about. How do you know we didn't get anything? How do you know your base wont stay the same size? How do you know what the agreement is...because it hasn't happened yet.

The response to me will be, "How do you know that we did get some of this?" Just wait. We will know soon enough. I think you might have to eat a GIANT piece of humble pie in the near future.

By the way, mommy is calling from the kitchen. Your warm milk is ready.