New AirTran TA Thread

[BSkin]

I got to listen to BH tells us, we should have expected concession because everyone else gave them. Tell you what I heard some stupid sh!t today. Here is the best, two senior CA saying how come the Union is not here to sell this thing to get the yes vote. I wanted to kick some A$$!!

F%$! the senior captains. They are the only one's that this could benefit. I got hired 3 years ago, and know that barely more than half of the seniority list is senior to that. We have a large, young pilot group -- let's not blow this! HELL NO!

 

[Lear70]

Citrus, you have it correct.

The company could completely destroy our pairings with the new scheduling rules,,, or they could improve them.

There's NO contract language that requires them to build pairings like they showed the scheduling committee, NC, and BOD that they were saying reduced our sit times, made more commutable pairings, and gave us an extra day to a day and a half off.

Since there's no language preventing that, there's no way I will hose myself by voting this in.

VOTE NO!!

Incidentally, I resigned my P2P position this morning after reading the full T.A. document. The new document will have NO new information in it, just clerical corrections.

The M&A section "supposedly" has a side letter that binds holdings but, according to the guys selling this thing, it just says that Holdings will not harm the pilots in regards to the intent of the Merger language. It doesn't state the intent and bind holdings. So who gets to determine the "intent" and what would "harm" us?

You guessed it.

VOTE NO!

 

[Ty Webb]

I resigned from P2P, as well, as did some other people. No offense to J.E., the NC or the BoD. They have put in a lot of long and thankless hours. Now it's up to the pilot group to speak with one voice and show our displeasure with this 1980's management.

What a collossal waste of energy. No wonder there is such a difference between SWA's bottom line and ours.

PS., The fact that Bob H. was there selling it instead of the Union kind of says it all, doesn't it?

Anyone that would vote "yes" for this POS is too stupid and careless to operate an airplane.

.

 

[mnboyev]

I just put my P2P pin on my NO WAY TA tag.....

So what's the SPC fone # fellas ? I guess that's next...better start saving up for your strike fund ! Peace

 

[USARET]

"Waffle House suffices for required full service restaurant near hotel? We'll all be "smothered and covered" with sh*t if we vote this aweful TA in."

Damn that was funny!

 

[Eagle757shark]

I don't see how the negotiating committee could agree to something like this that will totally hose the reserve pilots. Again, to depend on a question and answer section to clarify a binding contract is unacceptable. I would of preferred the union and the company take a few more weeks and clean up the language and put in black and white what is and what isn't. I don't know why yes or no can't be brought out of these people. There is always a story or scenario that has to be evaluated. Bull, we don't need the union now to sell us on this, we all know what needs to be done. I believe the union leadership knows what is coming and its is time the pilots stand up for their profession, and preserve a quality of life that will allow us to enjoy our careers and provide for our families. The last 7 years we've heard excuses from every management team about why know one could earn money. We've watched managements steal pensions, take bonus' and destroy collective bargaining agreements! FELLOW PILOTS, wake up protect SCOPE and preserve our work rules and benefits. This TA does none of this!

 

[RadioClash]

Anyone that would vote "yes" for this POS is too stupid and careless to operate an airplane.

.

Funny you say that. Ran into Special Ed the other day. He told me that we needed to vote this in and we could fix the bad parts during the next contract negotiation in 4 years. He listed a few other reasons that made absolutely no sense. He is a lost cause. What I am afraid of though is that he could be flying with new FO's and trying to "educate" them on voting yes.

Voting NO!

 

[j41driver]

Is the TA out yet? I guess they didn't say which Saturday the revised one would be out...

 

[Eagle757shark]

Is the TA out yet? I guess they didn't say which Saturday the revised one would be out...

Pretty shady if you ask me. This NC has made a mess of this whole thing and can't even put out a finished product for the pilots to review. They want you to focus on the hourly rates.....BASICALLY.....QUANTITY NOT QUALITY! This is not a QUALITY TA!

 

[75M]

He is a lost cause. What I am afraid of though is that he could be flying with new FO's and trying to "educate" them on voting yes.

Having Special Ed argue FOR something couldn't be a better argument for voting AGAINST something. Even the newbees have figured that out.

 

[NuGuy]

You are correct about the one day = 4 hr min. But you don't get a minimum of 4.5 hrs/day on multiple day trips.

Here's the way I read it.
3-day trip:
Day 1 = 8 hrs
Day 2 = 1.5 hrs
Day 3 = 4 hours

Currently you would get paid 16 hours of pay.
This TA would pay you 13.5 hours of pay. It's a legal trip because it averages 4.5 hours/day. 13.5hrs/3days=4.5 hrs/day

You just lost 2.5 hours of pay in three days. They could conceivably do that 5 times/month and you now have lost 12.5 hours of pay/month over current contract.

Hope this helps.

Heyas Citrus,

I have no dog in this hunt, but at NWA we gave up the minimum day, and it destroyed the trip construction process. Management builds most trips now with 2 hard fly days to 8 hours, and then you cool your heels in the hotel somewhere for 30 hours waiting to fly 2-3 legs on the last day and get home late evening.

The reason? They want the blockholders on ready reserve at the hotel, so they can whittle down staffing on the real reserves. In essence, they get a free day of reserve out of you.

DO NOT listen to anyone who says "awww, the company won't do this" or "company won't the use langauge that way" or "it wouldn't be in the company's best interest to do that".... BUELL********************E!

Every one of the excuses the NWA pilot group got like that from the negotiating commitee, such as on scope, deadhead, sick pay and so on, the company is now driving 747s (or RJs) through the loopholes.

If your company asked for langauge a specific way or objected to specific langauge to prevent something YOU CAN BET THEY HAVE A REASON.

'nuff said...Good luck, guys!

Nu

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Holy Regression Batman!!

 

[ATLDRVR]

TA Back on NPA website.

 

[Kharma Police]

It's ALPA time....

 

[FlyWolf]

two senior CA saying how come the Union is not here to sell this thing to get the yes vote. I wanted to kick some A$$!!

Some of those senior captains are the greediest bunch of *&^% out there, they only care about themself and thats it, the unions "Alpa or otherwise" work very hard to please them, they don't care about the bottom guys.

When we got furloughed our "senior Captains" voted against Alpa's plan to help the furloughed guys, while they were proud to pickup all the extra JA pay while their Alpa brothers and sisters were out on the street. Its amazing to see a guy who makes 150K a year not tipping the van driver, its ridicules.

So yeah, be careful with those senior guys.

Ok, rant over, carry on

 

[Critter717]

Some of those senior captains are the greediest bunch of *&^% out there, they only care about themself and thats it, the unions "Alpa or otherwise" work very hard to please them, they don't care about the bottom guys.

When we got furloughed our "senior Captains" voted against Alpa's plan to help the furloughed guys, while they were proud to pickup all the extra JA pay while their Alpa brothers and sisters were out on the street. Its amazing to see a guy who makes 150K a year not tipping the van driver, its ridicules.

So yeah, be careful with those senior guys.

Ok, rant over, carry on

I've been here 8 years....what furloughed guys are you talking about? This airline is chock full of re-treads from other carriers. I think that the vague "senior captain" reference is unfair. I love how that attitude changes once you have been here awhile. The bulk of the senior greedy selfish guys I know are voting no. This TA is a turd. Everyone can see that. Before you continue with the generalizations check the senority list for the pre 9/11 crew you ass clown. We are the ones that that have sucked it up for a long time prior to you gracing us with your presence insisting on industry leading compensation.

I would rather continue to work under the exsiting agreement until we get a TA thats more agreeable. That includes not scewing the new guy. Care to take a guess at how many guys here that are on airline number X?

I'm for modest, steady growth. Maybe this is a wake up call to the pilot group? Where are your dues going? Allen Philpot is no longer current, Skipper Hyle could not find the C-con if he HAD to, Howard Hobday=first airline job....tons of well qualified guys in the pilot group that COULD have contributed to the process but were held at arms length. How much is your NPA lawyer getting paid? and for what? 1400 pilots on the property and Allen Philpot allowed Brad Dunlap, forced to step down via an audit of the NPA for questionable billing practices, viewing of porn during BOD meetings, etc...with women present... yet Brad is the BEST pick for head of the merger committee?

No wonder the have once again served up a turd.

 

[CitationLover]

critter,

i believe he is speaking about being furloughed from Midwest.

 

[FlyWolf]

I've been here 8 years....what furloughed guys are you talking about? This airline is chock full of re-treads from other carriers. I think that the vague "senior captain" reference is unfair. I love how that attitude changes once you have been here awhile. The bulk of the senior greedy selfish guys I know are voting no. This TA is a turd. Everyone can see that. Before you continue with the generalizations check the senority list for the pre 9/11 crew you ass clown. We are the ones that that have sucked it up for a long time prior to you gracing us with your presence insisting on industry leading compensation.

I would rather continue to work under the exsiting agreement until we get a TA thats more agreeable. That includes not scewing the new guy. Care to take a guess at how many guys here that are on airline number X?

I'm for modest, steady growth. Maybe this is a wake up call to the pilot group? Where are your dues going? Allen Philpot is no longer current, Skipper Hyle could not find the C-con if he HAD to, Howard Hobday=first airline job....tons of well qualified guys in the pilot group that COULD have contributed to the process but were held at arms length. How much is your NPA lawyer getting paid? and for what? 1400 pilots on the property and Allen Philpot allowed Brad Dunlap, forced to step down via an audit of the NPA for questionable billing practices, viewing of porn during BOD meetings, etc...with women present... yet Brad is the BEST pick for head of the merger committee?

No wonder the have once again served up a turd.

Notice the "SOME" senior captains in my post, plus yeah I was talking about Midex and not Airtran. I do hope for your sake that you turn this TA down with a 90% or better number. Peace

 

[Eagle757shark]

Who wrote this contract? In the compensation section Section 3-2-b: Base pay for Large Narrowbody (LNB) aircraft will be SNB hourly rates plus thirteen(13) percent. LNB aircraft include: B-727, B-737 (-400,-900), B-757, and A-321. Folks the B-737-400 is smaller than the B-737-800. The only US carriers that fly the B-737-400 are US Airways and Alaska Airlines. Those aircraft seat from 140-149 seats. The 737-800 can seat 175 in single class and 165 in two class configuration.
Small Narrowbody aircraft (SNB) include: B-737(-100,-200,-300,-500,-600,-700,-800), DC-9(all models), A-318, A319,A-320,F-100, and BA-146.
These guys are trying to get this thing through so bad that they just keep messing up language like this. The 737-400 is a smaller airplane than the 737-800. The 737-800 is larger than the 727. What gives? I can pick this thing apart all night.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Skipper Hyle ...... Howard Hobday=first airline job....tons of well qualified guys in the pilot group that COULD have contributed to the process but were held at arms length.

Close friends at their old USAF unit. Enough said?