New airline pilots on the radio

[Freebrd]

Isn't the AIM advisory in nature and best practices? Doesn't mean you can't use common sense and ask if there's traffic.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Doesn't mean you can't use common sense and ask if there's traffic.

For pilots that lack it (like SWABubba) the AIM is their only option...

 

[TigerDriver]

for Uncle: common sense is a rare commodity these days...
Techniques are techniques and procedures are procedures. We can play "what if" scenairios all day and at the end of which one must ask if our actions or in this case, communications, have compromised or enhanced safety. I'm not going to play Mr FAA looking for an opportunity to flash a badge and start an enforcement case (pretty extreme I know). I'm going to show some lattitude to my fellow aviators, and hope they would do the same for me.

 

[Nindiri]

I can deal with a little "unnecessary chatter" on the frequency, it's the annoying sound of two airplanes colliding in the pattern that really gets my attention. I prefer to think of "please advise" calls less as unnecessary chatter and more as noise abatement.

 

[SSDD]

The problem with a lot of people who use the "please advice" phrase is that they ASSUME that lack of response means there isn't anyone else in the pattern...and it ain't necessarily so...

 

[Mach 80]

ATC gives a descent clearance at pilot's discretion whichilot acknowledges. 4 minutes later pilot starts down and reports leaving current altitude. Necessary to make that report? I asked a Chicago center controller. He said that the initial acknowledgement was all that was needed and he didn't need nor even want the second call.

I then asked him if he appreciated a call upon entering holding. He said "no, not when in radar contact" but knew it was in the AIM and then expressed a wish that the AIM would get updated and things like that got deleted.

 

[SSDD]

Until that day when he's too busy, or is having a bad day and forgets he gave you PD, and clears another airplane into your space...oops. It's happened before. The call is unnecessary 99% of the time, but man, that time.....

Controllers have a tough job, and just like pilots I've heard them going down the $hitter more often, than I'd like.

You've posted all of these scenarios before, I would imagine the responses will be the same...

 

[Freebrd]

Silly arguments here lately. Common sense works great.

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't agree with you there. The AIM clearly says that phrase should not be used under any condition. The problem arises when you have 3 or 4 planes in the pattern and somebody new on the frequency says, "any traffic in the area please advise". Then you have people stepping all over each other responding to your call and you still don't know where everybody is because half the transmissions were blocked. A better technique is to monitor the CTAF on your second comm from further out before being told to switch over by ATC. Sure the AIM says 10 miles out you should monitor/communicate, but that is a minimum distance. In a fast moving aircraft I would want more of a mental picture of what is going on in the pattern.

Have you ever operated a jet into an uncontrolled airport? :erm:

I operated corporate jets based from uncontrolled airports for years, and you're damn straight we would ask about other traffic in the area, and so did the other operators.

Only a fool would enter an uncontrolled airport pattern in a jet and not be certain he was aware of all traffic and their location, and if you think you heard everything going on there on #2 (amidst the bleed-over from other airports), while talking to ATC on #1, getting the weather and active runway, setting up and briefing the approach and getting your performance numbers, well let's just say your perception of risk diverges greatly from mine.

 

[Singlecoil]

As someone who operated corporate jets based at several uncontrolled airports, you're damn straight we would ask about other traffic in the area.

Only a fool would enter an uncontrolled airport pattern in a jet and not be certain he was aware of all traffic and their location.

Touche. I would say only a fool would enter the pattern at an uncontrolled field and be certain that everyone in the pattern had a radio and a transponder.

 

[Freebrd]

I operated corporate jets based from uncontrolled airports for years, and you're damn straight we would ask about other traffic in the area, and so did the other operators. QUOTE]

What he said! :beer:

 

[Deadbug]

Yes there is. It's unnecessary chatter on an already busy frequency. Further, the FAA specifically states not to make this call.


From the AIM, 4-1-9(g)(1):

^^^^^^
What he said.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

^^^^^^
What he said.

That's what she said.

 

[Freebrd]

Who said she said what?

 

[Traderd]

Who said she said what?

Huh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OBZf0QdKdE

 

[ron burgundy]

What about "Southwest! Slow down!"?

You guys are disappointing....

They run fast...because they cannot run a "on time airline".
They are late from the day marketing puts out the new schedule...sad!

 

[Packers]

Touche. I would say only a fool would enter the pattern at an uncontrolled field and be certain that everyone in the pattern had a radio and a transponder.

I don't believe there is any requirement for a radio or even an electrical system in an airplane at an uncontrolled airport unless it sits under class B (30 mile veil) or within class C surface area so long as they stay below 10,000 and don't fly over B or C airspace.

It has been a long time since I instructed but that used to be the case.

 

[ExpWayVis31]

I'm surprised how many guys that I fly with don't know how to time there transmissions to ATC. There could be a solid 30+ seconds of silence on the radio but NO they wait until the frequency gets busy before they decide to talk on the radio and end up walking all over everybody.

I guess for some people it takes longer to put there head in gear before engaging there mouth.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

What flips my noodle is when some young whippersnapper starts sniffling and talking with a stuffy nose...poor CA is about to catch a cold from him too.

 

[Dornier 335]

ATC gives a descent clearance at pilot's discretion whichilot acknowledges. 4 minutes later pilot starts down and reports leaving current altitude. Necessary to make that report? I asked a Chicago center controller. He said that the initial acknowledgement was all that was needed and he didn't need nor even want the second call.

...

It IS/WAS a required call per US Airways manual (although not required per AIM). With the operating manuals' recent migration to LAA system, I am not sure if it is still in there.