New:2004 NetJet Payscales!

[been-there]

Been looking at some Adobe Acrobat files some...
wink, wink, nudge, nudge, friends showed me.

Normal Work Schedule: Captains
Service Year Wage
1. $6260
2. $6636
3. $7868
4. $8699
5. $9147
6. $9628
7. $10134
8. $10553
9. $10670
10. $11591
11. $11732
12. $12240
13. $12771
14. $13350

The language gets pretty confusing after the pay scale table. This
chart shows rates on signing by seniority(except BBJ). After a grace period the pay will be divided into 5 categories. Small cabin, Mid-size cabin, Large cabin, Jumbo cabin, and SuperSonic.

Looking at the top top end of this payscale (jumbo,ssj) some NJA pilot will be the highest paid professional pilot in the WORLD!

 

[x402]

Did you leave off a zero, or are those the proposed monthly payment?

 

[jato]

That was captains pay....or was that a joke and it just went over my head?

Good question though, is there an extra zero there or is that monthly??

Anyone know when the union meets to actually discuss payscales?

 

[1900cpt]

Here we go again, i saw something from somebody who knows somebody.....blah blah blah

No one ever can say where they got the info from. Like i said before, i will believe it when the first draft is in my hands.

By the way, money still hasnt been brought up yet.

 

[Lrjet55]

Money has been brought up. It was done over 3 months ago. Initial proposals only. That info is from the Airline division and not MEC/Company.


Those numbers are just bad enough to be the companies initial economic proposal. Just under $110,000 for a 5 year captain is fuggin horsesh!t.

Sadly, however, we do have a bunch of IDIOTS who will vote yes on this number and both the company and MEC know this.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Those numbers are just bad enough to be the companies initial economic proposal. Just under $110,000 for a 5 year captain is fuggin horsesh!t.

You are saying 110k for a 5th year captain is horsesh!t? Just want to make sure I got the gist of your post. Because if that's right, you are smoking something crazy...

 

[Lrjet55]

How many other ways do you want me to say it. Were not a commuter. We dont have a bunch of 500 hours pilots.

$110,000 for a 5 year captain is complete and total HORSESH!T.
The union says they are asking for $125,000 at year 5 and that is still too low.

Obviously you dont work for a fractional company so you comment speaks volumes. That attitude and lack of self worth are a problem we fight everyday at NJA due to the amount of pilots whom were hired(back when EJA couldnt get qualified pilots) without having any real jet experience.
We had pilots who actually thought $60,000 for a jet captain was reasonable. These idiots have no clue about NBAA salary surveys. Luckily they have been beaten into reality.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Just FYI, I work for your competition. I'm a facking realist, but thanks for the vote of confidence in my post.

Don't get me wrong, I hope you guys raise the bar through the friggin' roof. Will the payscale be changed to a pay-by-weight scale? I can't imagine an Ultra driver making $125,000 per year, and obviously your management doesn't either. I haven't met any small cabin Citation pilots making $125k in any part of the country. A Falcon driver deserves to make that, I'm sure your large cabin guys work just as hard as ours do. Seems to me like we are all understaffed and overworked, regardless of the last two letters in the tail number.

 

[Lrjet55]

Were all beat down. Its that way because of NJA and all the a$$ holes who voted in the last contract. NJA started this industry and due to the idiots at NJA the pay is what it is. Your pay is based of our lousy contract. Therefore the only people you have to blame is NJA.

That being said and my rant being over I like my job and I like what I do. Pay me very well and I will be happy.

The $125,000 is a direct quote from an MEC member I spoke with the other week. From what I gather they feel a Hawker, X, Falcon pilot should ATLEAST be up there. He said they would go no less than that.

We had The #2 guy come in the other day to speak at recurrent. He sat up there for 2 1/2 hours trying to convince us that NJA wants to make this place a career job, that 30 year job we got into aviation for. Now, can you believe a management guy? Thats a dang good question.

I respect the fractional pilots to the hill cause I know what our lives are like on a daily basis. The reason our pay is the way it is because when the last contract was signed we had a ton of guys thinking they were going to the majors and rightfully so. The airlines were hirring so fervently that NJA couldnt get quality pilots. This company was honestly hiring pilots out of Barons and 206's. I have nothing against those pilots personaly but when they were told they could make $50,000 as a thrid year captain I think they wet themselves. That plus many of the guys who paid for their training got a $10,000 bonus check. All this combined led to the mess we are in today.
NJA keeps blah, blah, blahing that were the best etc so then your company goes and says well those guys are the biggest and get paid X so well pay you guys this. Your company wet itself as well because it realized how low you guys could be paid since a presedent had been set.
I swear to gawd we are changing that presedent at NJA. Funny comment from our head MEC guy, he told us the other night at a meeting that there was no was he was going to put out a contract that wouldnt pass the first time because he knew he had to go on the road and "other pilots would fugg!ng lynch him". Now thats having a pretty good beat on how pissed the pilot group is.

 

[dkte737]

the above payscale is our current pay at 100%.......make of it what you want.

JP said we already have an Economic opener....I asked DV and he said it was just the framework with no numbers. Expect a tiered scale of somesort.


60% FO to Capt pay is also what I heard.

David

 

[F9 Driver]

Easy on the name calling high timer...

Hey Lrjit-55,

I'll try and take what you say with a grain of salt since you've been around for about a day.

I was one of those 'holes who voted for the last contract. Blo me! With 3000 hours I'd say you would have wet yourself for a BE-99 job in the mid '90s.

A bit of history for you.

The MEC went to RTS when the pilot list was about 250 strong (the IBT local had more members sweeping floors at Bud on 270 than all of EJA) and gave their wants. RTS gave back a POS proposal that was voted down HUGELY. All the while the pilot group was growing fast and this stuff doesn't happen over night.

The next vote was on the exact proposal (wish list) that the MEC gave RTS with around 500 pilots on property. That went down with a thud too. RTS came back saying he couldn't negotiate with a moving target and he added repayment of training costs.

The contract passed. It was better than working for a commuter for 15K, and most figured they would be off to the majors soon anyway.

You obviously came from the corporate world. Why'd you leave such great pay? Stability? RTS doesn't care about NBAA averages. He will only give what he has to in negotiations.

I left there after being involved in the early new contract development over three years ago. The contract was going to be done "any day" then. I got discouraged, got a better offer, and I jumped - rather be lucky than good

Now its about retro pay. Every day this drags on RTS figures less retro pay will have to be paid ("I can't give you the pay we offered AND all that retro pay".)

In today's economy, with LOTS of out of work pilots, and with RTS able to show operational loss a 100% pay raise sounds like a pipe dream.

Ya'll will only get what you get in negotiations. Not what you think you deserve (or do deserve.)

I still have friends there, and hope they all get rich. With 91(k) coming down the pike it wouldn't be a bad job if it paid better.

Good luck!

 

[Lear70]

That payscale would represent nearly a 50% raise for the Flexjet guys - I know, I used to work there. Those guys would JUMP at those rates which would be fantastic for the Lear guys, but not my idea of what the Challenger / Global guys should get.

Just another reason the Flexjet guys need to unionize - they're not charter pilots, they're corporate pilots, and should be paid respectively.

I'm not at EJA so I don't have a dog in this fight, I read this post just out of curiosity to see if EJA really HAD T.A.'d the pay section (that's what the title sounded like), but I too consider those rates not too bad for the smaller jet drivers and agree that the guys flying the HS, X, etc should make more than that.

80k 1st year CA, 100k in 3, 125k in 5, top at 150k for the smaller jets, 20% additive for larger jets doesn't sound that far off the mark compared to the NBAA Corporate salary average, but that's just my opinion.

Best of luck to the guys & gals at NJA!

 

[Bandit60]

I am all for the guys and gals getting a pay raise. I think they deserve it. However on the otherside of the coin. Look at the airlines...their overhead is what is killing them. The profit margin is so slim in that industry. When you double your overhead like you are talking about, I certainly hope the company can afford it.
Getting 110,000 would be nice but if that only lasted one year because the company went belly up is something i would ask myself. I just dont want to see the same thing that happened to the fracs that happened to the airlines.



QUOTE]Those numbers are just bad enough to be the companies initial economic proposal. Just under $110,000 for a 5 year captain is fuggin horsesh!t.[/QUOTE]

A $110,000 is good pay. I just hope most of them realize that.

 

[Lrjet55]

F9,

You voted in a fuggin shiddy contract recommended by a divided MEC. 2 of the 5 refused to supposrt it but the nutless democracy won. The pilot group and the MEC were frightened of the word "mediation". They were simply out gunned. You took your money and ran. Many people did. You screwed those coming after you and thats where we are today.

This time around we are hoping that the MEC will get it right. The strength of the MEC is still to be determined but the strength of the pilot group is not. We have had so many pilots complain to the actual ariline division that the heads of the union have finally gotten involved. You had a weak local, MEC and pilot group.We wont make YOUR mistake again.

There are 28 or so pilots still remaining at NJA who voted on the last contract. Only 1 has ever admitted to it. He figured he would take his money and run also. It never happened so he is stuck with the fruits of his labor.

As for our pipe dream, its not. We show a profit in the US. The Europe side shows the loss. I can't help the fact you don't know your worth. 100% brings us to NBAA standards.

We will get our money. We will get a minimum 100% raise. If not the lets all just quit grabbing our ankles and shut the place down. The pilot group is more than willing to strike this time around. This group is looking at NJA as a career and no longer a stepping stone. With that in mind we will fight accordingly.

Lastly, when I interviewed for the job I was told the same thing. "Don't let the contract deter you from coming here" they said, "it will be done in a few months". That was some happy horsesh!t there. The difference is I am trying to make a difference. Over 50% of the current pilot group at NJA has been here 3 years or less. Thats an overwhelming majority. That precludes us from having to settle for another contract YOU voted in. This new group knows and understands its worth. We still have to fight against the legacy your kind left behind. Rest assured, however, we are winning and will do so in grand fashion.



JP11,

People cant even be called ignorant about our situation. This whole fractional thing is so new to them. They cant comprehend the amount of money involved and how its garaunteed.
Your doin a great job on the board by the way.

 

[Frac Daddy]

First of all, just let me say that I hope you guys at NJA get a really, really, really, big raise. Honestly.

However, I do feel there are some irrational expectations here. My co-worker, SheGaveMeClap, said he was a realist. Well, here is a take from a pessimist: While $125,000/year for a 5 year Ultra Captain might be a great gig, what is the precedence for this? And if there is no precedent for this, why would you expect to get this? Remember, the company is going to have their own ideas (this is a negotiation, remember) and, while I am not an insider, I cannot imagine that it would be much more than what the higher-end of what corporate pay is.

There is also this argument:

It's a whole different ball of wax. We don't depend on people shopping around and buying a ticket. I can't envision ONE of our owners sitting in a airport lounge waiting on a cattle call to get on a smelly old airliner.

This is what one might call a false dilema. The notion that there are only two choices for NJA customers. They could also go to one of your competitors or just buy their own airplane. Fractional owers pay a premium for the convenience of not having the headaches of running their own flight department. There is a price point at which they will bail out, though.

And as you flame away at me remember this; I DO hope you guys get a really, really, really, big raise.

 

[Lrjet55]

No one is going to flame you but the company WILL pay an ultra captain $125,000.

They arent going to do it by year 5 however. The year 5 example is for and airplane above 30,000lbs as per my conversation with an MEC member.

Now, Frac and Clap take no offense by my comments but your problem is thinking you compnay cant pay you that amount.

Your company does not charge a whole lot less than we do. The money is there, its just whether your particualr pilot group can negotiat for it. I believe ours can. I believe yours can as well and hopefully soon you will have the precedent for it.

I dont believe a pilot should retire at NJA making $300,000. It would be nice but not realistic, right now.LOL
The problem we have here is perception. Fractionals have set the precedent that we wont make much money. Its our job to change it. My contention is that we should retire, after 30 years, making around $180,000/$200,000 flying a Falcon or equivalent.
Again, before your jaw drops and hits the floor its all about perception. We are worth it, the companies can afford it and all we have to do is fight for it.

Just for grins, and I think its true, a NJI captain on a GV is making $175,000 after 7 years. How 'bout dem apples!

 

[WileE]

Does anyone think that NJ will get the kind of raises brought up in this thread by some without some kind of strike or at least serious brinksmanship on the part of the MEC?

 

[Lrjet55]

Hey Gunfyter,

I hope to gawd your wrong.

My optimisim, and I'm usually not, is due to the conversations I have had with DV as of late.

He would never come out and say "hey this thing will be done tomorrow" and I cant say I would expect him to but he will allude to the fact the contract can be ready for a vote in June.

FOR ALL YOU SPINNERS OUT THERE, DV DID NOT SAY ANYTHING SPECIFIC.

But between him and MM who was in my recurrent class they are very positive. MM was specific about months and it was certainly before September.

We'll see

 

[bartpearl]

The airlines were hirring so fervently that NJA couldnt get quality pilots.

What exactly is your definition of a "quality pilot"?

Total time? Jet time? I've flown with people who had gobs of both and wouldn't trust them with a kiddie car. I flown with others who were hired with just over the company minima and were sharp as a tack.

 

[FatesPawn]

What exactly is your definition of a "quality pilot"?

Me.