New:2004 NetJet Payscales!

[NJAowner]

Warehouse ... thanks for understanding my comment. My comment was not a reflection of whther NJA pilots should be paid more. I have stated my opinion before (yes) and have even given some "outside of the box" ideas to help move it along (only to get third degree burns).

That aside, my comment was a general comment for all workers, each of whim generally think they are underpaid.

P.S. -- Many managers of car dealerships on highways (that sell a lot of cars) can make $500K-$1,000,000. In 2000, the Zamboni driver at Madison Square Garden (who is in the same union as the NJA pilots but different local) made $100K+ per year, plus benefits and retirement for the 41 home NY Rangers games (they practice elsewhere) and a few nights of Disney on Ice. No other duties the rest of the year. Bonus pay if the Rangers make the playoffs and there are additonal games (there are usually not too many of those). I firmly believe that flying a plane deserves more than driving the Zamboni.

Fly safe.

 

[FL450]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that after the upcoming mediated negotiations the last week in May and the first week in June, we should have a better feel on where this issue of pay is going to go. We're all anxious as hell at NJA. Who wouldn't be?

Which brings me to the next point. Folks are extremely defensive on this and other BBS's when pay is mentioned. This has been dragging on almost 3 years now, and a lot of pilots and their families have their lives on partial hold while this new CBA gets hashed out. There is a lot on the line here and the hopes are high. While most of us at NJA enjoy a good debate on such touchy subjects, there are those that simply like to toss barbs and jabs to stir the pot. I suspect such losers exist in any profession. It's just a shame we seem to have a majority of them involved in aviation.

This statement is not directed at anyone specifically, rather, a general observation. I find it interesting that in a time of such contrasting growth and turmoil in the aviation industry as a whole, there wouldn't be a greater degree of harmony to better the cause for everyone involved............
or maybe I've slurped too many Blizzards(r) and my brain is frozen.

 

[davis]

go get'um

Hey I cannot state it enough...nj pilots are some of the hardest working and loyal aviators around.

Fact is 39k per year for a any fleet cpt is bs.(which is the current pay for a nj pilot)..not kidding...

Buffet and Sangooly are laughing all the way to the bank. Just ask Sangooly where your raise is maybe its in Salene Deon south fla home that he recently purchased?

Criminal is the first word that comes to mind.

Best of luck to the fine people of NJ!

 

[Caveman]

$125K for flying a light to medium jet?!? I sure you hope you get it because if you do you'll turn the industry on it's ear. Disclaimer: I'm not a corporate nor a fractional pilot. Having said that, 125K seems to be way off the mark. There are corporate gigs that pay that and better but they are the minority. Most are usually Fortune 50 companies and they fly heavy business jets internationally. Flying fractional owners from STL to Aspen in a Excel isn't in the same league. It's a worthy job and deserving of professional compensation. I would love for you guys to get that much but I don't think you have a snowball's chance in he11. It's just too far out of sync with what comparative flying pays. Most corporate medium jet Captains probably make less than $125K and not only do they do everything that a frac pilot does but they also are the MX manager, dispatcher, and scheduler. Good luck. I hope you get it, I really do, but I don't see it happening.

 

[Caveman]

Mr gunfytr...

I think you should 'ask' for $125K (I don't think you're gonna get it though)

"$125K I think should be year 2 or 3 pay.... maybe 90K year 1 FO."

Sorry, sir, but that's absurd. Are your skills and professionalism worthy of that kind of pay? Yes, definitely yes, but the market won't support it. No way, no how. I hope you prove me wrong.

Semper fi

 

[NJA Capt]

I think you should 'ask' for $125K (I don't think you're gonna get it though)

"$125K I think should be year 2 or 3 pay.... maybe 90K year 1 FO."
Sorry, sir, but that's absurd.

Well how do you like that????
After all these years of people busting our chops about our low pay, and "bringing down the bar," now you're complaining that we are asking too much.

Let me offer this. Per the national average, corp CX pilots start at 90-120K. The average corp pilot flies 1-2 legs per day, spends less than 5 RONs per month, and waits in FBOs for multiple hours per day (or plays golf until the boss comes back).

The average NJA pilot flies 3-6 legs per day (every day), spends 14-19 RONs every month and is lucky to get 1 hour in the FBO between flights.

I love my job and the flying involved, but, 125K isn't even an opening offer, above year 3, in our book.

 

[Schrode]

I respectively disagree. The market will support it. We have conducted much research into this subject and frankly it does not compare with the existing market. This is a new market, larger than the "Fortune 50" Where exactly does Berkshire-Hathaway fall in the Fortune 50 anyway? It doesn't - It just buys many of their stocks and owns large portions of them, and controls much of their destinies. So, in a way BH is its' own "new" market that many would say is successful (understatement). Who is putting the business model together for the Fractional market? I'd say it is about to change.

 

[Lrjet55]

To all those: 208starcheck, NJA owner, etc....

I've been on the road all week and I haven't had time to post but after getting home and reading post by these two memebrs I think I am losing it. 208 you mentioned you are late to the board, dude you are late for the short bus to school. If you honestly think that NJA would go bankrupt from paying us 125K at year 3, 4 or 5 then you are the first rider on the short bus. Crack a book bro, learn something about where you want to work. Better yet, dont bother applying. You will end up being another pilot at NJA who doesnt understand his/her worth.
NJA owner I read your post. Your bland and sanatized post speaks volumes. We should easily be making 125K at year 3. Although your post does not specifically point a finger at our crews your underlying message is loud and clear.
Either way, dont you have anything better to do than hang out on a board pretending to be something you are not?


Look people, the majority of pilots at NJA are fully aware of how much the company can reasonably pay the pilots. If you want to work here and cant be onboard with that then stay where you are.
NetJets can easily afford 150K at year 4 or 5. This does not mean we are asking for 300K either. For the majority of us a pay scale on par with Southwest is fair. Now, I am not comparing us to Southwest just using their pay as an example. Its still a moot point unless our MEC has the balls to fight for it.

 

[NJAowner]

LtJet55 - I did spend part of my day today in the company of NJA C-X pilots in whom I trusted the life of myself and my wife while my children sat at home. (I appreciate the upgrade but did not need the room or speed today -- I need it cross-country with the family!!!) That speaks volumes upon volumes of my trust in these professional pilots (as well as my wife's which is much, much tougher).

I do think NJA pilots deserve much more, have been vocal about ways I thinks they could get it, and usually get my b..u..t..t.. singed. You misinterpreted my post. I just said that most people think they are underpaid. This includes me ... I think I am underpaid too for the responsibility and pressures I take.

By the way, why do I check this board -- 1 part entertainment, but mostly to keep my ear to the ground about NJA and the planes and pilots which fly me, my family and my employees (and sometimes friends). I do not beleive all I read but sometimes there is an ounce of trust which leads to other things.

Not all of us are pompous egomaniacal a$$ holes. Some of us actually get drinks for the pilots and share our meals when the crew food dioes not arrive for a long flight.

 

[FracCapt]

Griz thats SIC pay...

PICs get engine thrust added to that number...so another $13,000

185 + 13 = $198K yiiiiihaaaaaggghhh

That's pathetic....now, if you could multiply the pay by wing loading for PIC's....that would be more along the lines of fair...

But only $1k additional for each year of seniority? You sure don't think much of yourself....that's quite different from every other pilot I know, who think they are God. We're not THE God...we're each just A god...




...even if just in our own minds..

 

[Lrjet55]

Gunfyter,

I dont like your tone. At my speed in the Hawker I will still be making the same crap pay,lol.

Were killin' em at .78 baby! (thats on a good day)

Mach - .80
Weight - 28,120
Ceiling - 41,000
Me = 3

 

[niteflyr]

Don't forget!

What about the bonus $$ based on the number of pounds lost in sweat working each summer in the Ultra! and the 400xp I guess. Ought to be worth something...

 

[Lrjet55]

niteflyr,

That's fleet specific bro. We don't get that bonus in the Hawker or X cause we have the apu's.

But if you want it, by golly, you got it! It's a no vote for me unless non apu birds get extra pay for sweat loss.

We will call it "Dehydration Pay"!

 

[Schrode]

Dehydration Pay (DP) - This is great! Man, how rich I would be!

 

[niteflyr]

Almost forgot

Don't forget to include PPP for the ultra crews.

(Poopy-Potty-Pay)

 

[1-tacan-rule]

break your paradigms

At the risk of getting flamed, I think many on this topic are resorting to same old tired logic: comparing one occupation to another and saying: "oh, I work harder than that guy so I deserve more $" or "I have more education/training/experience/etc so I deserve more pay." Using this logic, a laid-off Eastern Capt should be able to walk across the tarmac to United and slide into a Capt seat making that airlines Capt pay. As we know, it don't work like that. A Comair Capt flying 5 legs a day 17days a month probably has more lives entrusted to him than a 777 Capt making a few trips across the pond a month, yet the 77 guy spends more on hair gel than the poor RJ guy makes in half a pay period. So please spare me the "we clean the planes and kiss the arses of owners, and airline guys go straight from the pit to the limo to the room of the hottest stew." Bottom line, frac pilots will never get what they think they deserve...they will only get what they are able to squeeze out of the company. And they will only do that when they negotiate a desirable wage/benefit package with the threat of 'walking' if they don't get what they want. I have bunches of buds flying NJ. All are GREAT guys, GREAT pilots. I personally hope they get however much they want...but if they do, it ain't because they 'deserve' it. It's because of the free market system. We'll see.

 

[Jetsi]

You guys deserve more . . .

but I think you may be asking too much as well.

I left the competition to go to an airline, and in the back of my head as I was deciding about taking the job was "what is NJ gets their contract?". I would have hit year 5 captain in July.

But, as I thought about it more, I had been hearing about this contract for 3 years with no fruition. And I couldn't stand to do the job anymore, no matter what they paid me. 8 days on the road, crappy hotels, etc, etc, etc.

In the good ol' U.S. of A. we are a capitalist society. You get paid on what money you can bring to your company. If NJ is rolling in the dough, then you should get paid more. But NJ can only charge what the market will bear if they are not swimming in coin.

Just my two cents worth, and I hope you guys get it, because all of the fractional pilots are worth every penny. It was the most demanding job I ever had, one that left me exhausted for two days after I FINALLY got home at 15 hours and 50 minutes of duty on day 8. But even if you guys get all you want, I still would look for employment elsewhere.

Waiting for the flame,

Jetsi

 

[cgmason1]

No flame.

There is allot of truth in what you wrote-but I have to add that NetJets in raking in the cash-they can afford to pay us above and beyond what we seek.
Also the part about being exhausted after a tour-I am sure that is common for most frax pilots as we all do the same type of job and just another reason why we should be paid allot more.

That being said-how do you feel about your change from the frax world to Frontier?
Any regrets?
I am asking cause I am considering the same jump.

Fly Safe
Chuck

 

[Live4flyng]

In the good ol' U.S. of A. we are a capitalist society. You get paid on what money you can bring to your company. If NJ is rolling in the dough, then you should get paid more. But NJ can only charge what the market will bear if they are not swimming in coin.

Jetsi,

Don't mean to sound like an ass, but if you apply the logic of your statement above to Frontier, it makes no sense. That company is struggling financially, I wish you all the luck.

Maybe you can state exactly what an NJA pilot should be making then.

 

[Frac Daddy]

No flame.

There is allot of truth in what you wrote-but I have to add that NetJets in raking in the cash-they can afford to pay us above and beyond what we seek.
Also the part about being exhausted after a tour-I am sure that is common for most frax pilots as we all do the same type of job and just another reason why we should be paid allot more.

That being said-how do you feel about your change from the frax world to Frontier?
Any regrets?
I am asking cause I am considering the same jump.

Fly Safe
Chuck

Yes, Jetsi, let us know how Frontier is working. As you may know, I am in the same dilema you were.