New:2004 NetJet Payscales!

[Lrjet55]

The quality pilot for our purposes here are the guys who had very little experience, this was their first jet job, had and still have very little self worth.

We have many pilots at NJA who to this day cannot comprehend CRM. We have pilots who think, since this was their first jet job, that a captain should make $50,000 and work over 14 hours.

Our training dept is filled with attitudes like "this is the way we've always done it".


I will agree with you Bart. There were alot of guys who were hired with very little experience and have a done a great job. The current corporate culture, pre Billy Boy, is a perfect example. The pilots we hired had a large part to do with the current culture. Those are the folks that must change.

I point fingers Bart because I follow up the pointing with letters and suggestions through the appropriate channels.

 

[Schrode]

Just a quick lesson on how NetJets pays pilots:

1. Aircraft are sold as fractional shares - No overhead for NetJets, they don't own them. (Actually they own a few - core fleet aircraft, about 5%).

2. Owners are charged a "management fee" to cover costs of management, training and pilot salaries. This increases annually to cover inflation.

3. Owners are charged a "hourly fee" to cover maintenance, fuel, taxi and ferry.

4. The owners were informed of the impending contract changes and were assessed an "increase" to pay for the increased pilot salary. (over the last 3 years this is estimated at $156,000,000).

5. The pilot costs (including the expected 100% pay increase + benifits and retro) are included in the management fees and amount to less than 7% of that management fee - not substantial - and not a "company cost factor" since it is directly passed on to the owner.

So you see, a 100% increase is possible, not a pipe dream - no precident is required. We are building a new industry, and a whole new set of rules.

 

[Lrjet55]

Well said

 

[NJAowner]

Cost Pass Through

Scrode ... not all costs are passed through. Both the MMF and OHF can be increased each year but it is tied to the Consumer Price Index (or 3.75% whichever is lower) annually from the commencement of the owne'rs contract. If pilot costs go up substantially, NJA may only pass on the portion up to the amount of the COLA increase on the fees. They can adjust the fees higher in the future, but only for new owners and renewals.

 

[Diesel]

You thought the company was out of touch with what we have to do. The owners are even more out of touch with what we do on an every day to make sure they get to their destination safely and with their bagels.

One of my favorite line's of all time from an owner.

"I think the people who clean the plane out of ase do a much better job than the people out of sna."

What 99 percent of owners don't realize is that we clean the planes. Every once and a while we have detailers clean the plane but the day to day stuff are the same guys up front.

 

[Lrjet55]

That is sooooo funny Diesel. I would love to be afforded ignorance and bliss through wealth. If only our owners were as educated about our job descriptions as we are about their travel plans, fractional shares and Marqui programs. And since we are not allowed to educate them then I suppose the company will be getting right on that... right?

 

[F9 Driver]

LrJit-55

The less one makes absolute statements the less one tends to look foolish in retrospect.

You are either very young, stupid, or both. (odds are the latter)

I wish my friends at EJA good luck.

55,

I wish you all you feel entitled to.

Time will tell

 

[Lrjet55]

Yawn...

 

[FL450]

Re: Cost Pass Through

Scrode ... not all costs are passed through. Both the MMF and OHF can be increased each year but it is tied to the Consumer Price Index (or 3.75% whichever is lower) annually from the commencement of the owne'rs contract. If pilot costs go up substantially, NJA may only pass on the portion up to the amount of the COLA increase on the fees. They can adjust the fees higher in the future, but only for new owners and renewals.

Actually, it's based on the CPI-U for the previous fiscal year ending November 30th or 3.75%, whichever is greater.

 

[NJAowner]

FL450 is correct

FL450 is correct. It was a typo on the "lower" .. I meant greater. And I did not want to bore the board with CPI-U vs other CPI indexes, and regional indexes. But yes, you are correct. The intent of my message was that unlimited increases may not be passed on to the existing contract owners. I apologize for not actually tking my contract out of the nice NetJets binder to quote it verbatim.

 

[FL450]

While it is true that unlimited increases may not be passed onto existing owners, that isn't true for new owners. The 2004 pricing sheets for NJA new and pre-owned aircraft are firm until until 6-30-04. I suspect the new CBA will have an effect on the possible increases to come.

Consider the rapid interest in the Marquis Jet Card Program. A slight increase could go a long way to help cover salary increases. That could be charged to pre-card sales; perhaps passed on to card purchasers.

Another variable is NJA's ability to increase scheduling efficiency. The RCA concept could also help to that end. Looks like a truly interesting summer!

 

[208starcheck]

I'm a little late jumping in to this debate but..... If Netjets started paying their 5th year captains 125k, I wouldn't want to go work there any more. Keep in mind I want to work there sooo bad. I've been checking this board for a couple years now looking for anything about Netjets: bidding runs that get me more time so I can be more competitive, staying with the same company so I look loyal, and logging jet time in a similar size aircraft.

I know someone is going to say that since I'm new I'll work for a low wage. Before you say that, get an education. If that was the case I'd be chasing the regionals, not so, as I have pride and have a FAIR idea what we as pilots are worth. If Netjets paid their 5 year captains 125k a year, there would be no more Netjets. I believe they work hard enough to deserve the pay, but no one deserves to be out of work due to bankrupcy.

Good luck on the new contract. You all deserve more.

 

[800XP]

Interesting opinion 208starcheck

Everyone's entitled to their opinion....and I respect your opinion 208starcheck.

My opinion is this:

$125,000/yr for a 5th year Captain at NetJets will NOT financially ruin NetJets.

I would like to read others' opinion on this matter.

 

[fly26]

208starcheck,

You tell us to "get an education" and yet that has got to be one of the most uneducated posts I have ever seen. Please tell us you are kidding! 125K/year will ruin NJA? Not in a million years.

"If Netjets started paying their 5th year captains 125k, I wouldn't want to go work there any more." Guess we won't see you on the seniority list.

Good luck.

 

[warehouse]

"I know someone is going to say that since I'm new I'll work for a low wage. Before you say that, get an education."

Wow, I don't even know where to begin with this post concerning future speculated wages at the fractional mentioned. It is indeed your right to voice your opinion concerning pilot pay. However, you may want to take some of your own advice concerning getting an education on the fractional pilot job description and what the company can afford to pay at the leader in that particular field. Believe me that number mentioned is a low figure at the five year mark, it will not bankrupt the company.

Don't ever believe you are worth one cent less than what you should be getting paid. Low self-worth has been a detriment to fractional pilots for far too long.

 

[NJAowner]

Pay

No one, at any level, should get carried away with the hope of getting paid what he or she thinks they are worth. Almost everyone, and everyone that I know, thinks they are underpaid. But keep in mind that your local manager of an auto dealership (not an owner), and some train conductors in NYC, make more that the President of the United States (regardless of whether you like him, it is an important and stressful job). (NOTE: why is it you may pay a grass cutter $12 per hour and a baby sitter $8 per hour???)

In light of his respective job, stress and duties, the neurosurgeon feels underpaid at $750,000, the investment banker feels underpaid at 2,000,000, the corporate CEO feels he should make $8 million and not $6 million. The McDonald's cashier feels underpaid at $7 per hour. School teachers feel underpaid even though they work less than 180 days per year.

The blunt fact is almost everyone feels underpaid.


Please, please, please do not misinterpret this to mean I think NJA pilots do not deserve a raise; I believe they do. This is just a general comment of people in general.

 

[Live4flyng]

Really?

you are worth. Almost everyone, and everone that I know, thinks they are underpaid. But keep in mind that your local manager of an auto dealership (not an owner), and sometrain conductors in NYC make more that the President (regardless of whether you like him, it is an important and stressful job).

They make over $400K/year?

That's not a very good attitude to have coming into the business Mr Airnet Pilot. I would suggest you just stay there and continue making $40K flying that old lear and leave fractional flying to the professionals who are experienced and safe. One more thing about education, you need a financial education!

 

[Diesel]

NJAowner- I realize you were talking in general so here is MY general comment.

What is the difference between what an airline captain and a fractional captain? I mean all we do is sit up front and push buttons. But the pay is wayyyyyy different. Some things that I do that my airline captain wife doesn't.

fuel plane
clean plane
get their catering (make sure it's right)
open their car door
get their bags out and load them
brought the kitchen sink now i've got to figure out what to do with it
brief the owners
take off with them taping me on the shoulder before v1
serve food
serve drinks
figure out where your ride is at the fbo
do some circling aproach to some "really important airport" (read middle of nowhere)
get the bags out and the kitchen sink
pull the car around
load the car while the owner tips the line service who did nothing
clean the plane
stock the plane
cover the plane
figure out where the hotel is
try to find a ride to the hotel but nobody can give us a ride
ride in some smelly cab while the guy rips us off
overnight.

now repeat this 5 times a day for 7 straight. So are fractional pilots overpaid? I don't think so. I'm just trying to bring the pay up to the industry standard. That's the point we're not even close to the industry standard. So yes i'm underpaid.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi NJAOwner:

Off the topic but...

Most teachers, and ALL good ones work way more than 180 days/year.

It is true, though, that teachers are part-time employees. The reason that they don't work all year is that they are not allowed to.

In WI, teachers aren't paid to work from about mid-June to the end of August. Since their jobs won't pay them, you would think they get unemployment. I don't know if this is true in all/most states, but WI passed labor laws stating that teachers are not allowed to collect unemployment when the school districts stop paying them.

I ask you, in basically all companies, who are the most valued employees, the part-timers, or the full-timers.

ALL good teachers work full time. Teachers should get paid full time!!!

It would take me a long time to go into all the details, but if teachers were to be paid full-time, like they work, at the same rate that they are paid now, I believe their compensation would be "fair". As it is now, teachers are SCREWED!

What is even more unbelievable, is many Principals are still paid part-time!!! Unbelievable!!!

Cliff
LIT

On-Topic
PS-When NetJets gets their new contract passed, I believe they will have "fair" compensation. I don't believe it is "fair" now. I would be very interested in working at NetJets after the new contract is in place. Currently, because of the compensation level, I believe that NetJets is not as good a place to work as where I am now. I believe I am fairly paid, and NetJets pilots aren't.

 

[warehouse]

I had no idea that such a philosophical discussion on a person's self-worth would ensue by stating that NetJet pilot's are under paid.

Again I will not sling mud, everone is entitled to their opinion concering fractional pilot's pay - even if they are not a pilot at all. Different perspectives and ideas are what keep life interesting.

I do not want to go off on a tangent and discuss what neurosurgeons, investment bankers, teachers, CEOs, or even the President of the U.S. thinks they should make.

The topic is compensation for the professional pilots at NetJets. For the uninformed, fracstats.com posts salaries of all the fractional companies. The payscales for NetJets became effective in 1998, and have not changed one cent since then.

Mr. NJA Owner I am glad to hear that you think we deserve a raise. Perhaps there is light at the the end of the tunnel. None of us think we will become millionaires or bankrupt the company by wanting our compensation to be raised to the industry average.