New:2004 NetJet Payscales!

[Lrjet55]

No one is going to flame you but the company WILL pay an ultra captain $125,000.

They arent going to do it by year 5 however. The year 5 example is for and airplane above 30,000lbs as per my conversation with an MEC member.

Now, Frac and Clap take no offense by my comments but your problem is thinking you compnay cant pay you that amount.

Your company does not charge a whole lot less than we do. The money is there, its just whether your particualr pilot group can negotiat for it. I believe ours can. I believe yours can as well and hopefully soon you will have the precedent for it.

I dont believe a pilot should retire at NJA making $300,000. It would be nice but not realistic, right now.LOL
The problem we have here is perception. Fractionals have set the precedent that we wont make much money. Its our job to change it. My contention is that we should retire, after 30 years, making around $180,000/$200,000 flying a Falcon or equivalent.
Again, before your jaw drops and hits the floor its all about perception. We are worth it, the companies can afford it and all we have to do is fight for it.

Just for grins, and I think its true, a NJI captain on a GV is making $175,000 after 7 years. How 'bout dem apples!

 

[WileE]

Does anyone think that NJ will get the kind of raises brought up in this thread by some without some kind of strike or at least serious brinksmanship on the part of the MEC?

 

[Lrjet55]

Hey Gunfyter,

I hope to gawd your wrong.

My optimisim, and I'm usually not, is due to the conversations I have had with DV as of late.

He would never come out and say "hey this thing will be done tomorrow" and I cant say I would expect him to but he will allude to the fact the contract can be ready for a vote in June.

FOR ALL YOU SPINNERS OUT THERE, DV DID NOT SAY ANYTHING SPECIFIC.

But between him and MM who was in my recurrent class they are very positive. MM was specific about months and it was certainly before September.

We'll see

 

[bartpearl]

The airlines were hirring so fervently that NJA couldnt get quality pilots.

What exactly is your definition of a "quality pilot"?

Total time? Jet time? I've flown with people who had gobs of both and wouldn't trust them with a kiddie car. I flown with others who were hired with just over the company minima and were sharp as a tack.

 

[FatesPawn]

What exactly is your definition of a "quality pilot"?

Me.

 

[Lrjet55]

The quality pilot for our purposes here are the guys who had very little experience, this was their first jet job, had and still have very little self worth.

We have many pilots at NJA who to this day cannot comprehend CRM. We have pilots who think, since this was their first jet job, that a captain should make $50,000 and work over 14 hours.

Our training dept is filled with attitudes like "this is the way we've always done it".


I will agree with you Bart. There were alot of guys who were hired with very little experience and have a done a great job. The current corporate culture, pre Billy Boy, is a perfect example. The pilots we hired had a large part to do with the current culture. Those are the folks that must change.

I point fingers Bart because I follow up the pointing with letters and suggestions through the appropriate channels.

 

[Schrode]

Just a quick lesson on how NetJets pays pilots:

1. Aircraft are sold as fractional shares - No overhead for NetJets, they don't own them. (Actually they own a few - core fleet aircraft, about 5%).

2. Owners are charged a "management fee" to cover costs of management, training and pilot salaries. This increases annually to cover inflation.

3. Owners are charged a "hourly fee" to cover maintenance, fuel, taxi and ferry.

4. The owners were informed of the impending contract changes and were assessed an "increase" to pay for the increased pilot salary. (over the last 3 years this is estimated at $156,000,000).

5. The pilot costs (including the expected 100% pay increase + benifits and retro) are included in the management fees and amount to less than 7% of that management fee - not substantial - and not a "company cost factor" since it is directly passed on to the owner.

So you see, a 100% increase is possible, not a pipe dream - no precident is required. We are building a new industry, and a whole new set of rules.

 

[Lrjet55]

Well said

 

[NJAowner]

Cost Pass Through

Scrode ... not all costs are passed through. Both the MMF and OHF can be increased each year but it is tied to the Consumer Price Index (or 3.75% whichever is lower) annually from the commencement of the owne'rs contract. If pilot costs go up substantially, NJA may only pass on the portion up to the amount of the COLA increase on the fees. They can adjust the fees higher in the future, but only for new owners and renewals.

 

[Diesel]

You thought the company was out of touch with what we have to do. The owners are even more out of touch with what we do on an every day to make sure they get to their destination safely and with their bagels.

One of my favorite line's of all time from an owner.

"I think the people who clean the plane out of ase do a much better job than the people out of sna."

What 99 percent of owners don't realize is that we clean the planes. Every once and a while we have detailers clean the plane but the day to day stuff are the same guys up front.

 

[Lrjet55]

That is sooooo funny Diesel. I would love to be afforded ignorance and bliss through wealth. If only our owners were as educated about our job descriptions as we are about their travel plans, fractional shares and Marqui programs. And since we are not allowed to educate them then I suppose the company will be getting right on that... right?

 

[F9 Driver]

LrJit-55

The less one makes absolute statements the less one tends to look foolish in retrospect.

You are either very young, stupid, or both. (odds are the latter)

I wish my friends at EJA good luck.

55,

I wish you all you feel entitled to.

Time will tell

 

[Lrjet55]

Yawn...

 

[FL450]

Re: Cost Pass Through

Scrode ... not all costs are passed through. Both the MMF and OHF can be increased each year but it is tied to the Consumer Price Index (or 3.75% whichever is lower) annually from the commencement of the owne'rs contract. If pilot costs go up substantially, NJA may only pass on the portion up to the amount of the COLA increase on the fees. They can adjust the fees higher in the future, but only for new owners and renewals.

Actually, it's based on the CPI-U for the previous fiscal year ending November 30th or 3.75%, whichever is greater.

 

[NJAowner]

FL450 is correct

FL450 is correct. It was a typo on the "lower" .. I meant greater. And I did not want to bore the board with CPI-U vs other CPI indexes, and regional indexes. But yes, you are correct. The intent of my message was that unlimited increases may not be passed on to the existing contract owners. I apologize for not actually tking my contract out of the nice NetJets binder to quote it verbatim.