New:2004 NetJet Payscales!

[Jetsi]

All the replies

cgmason1: I thought I had heard that NJ posted a loss lately, but also heard that was due to European operations. If they got the money, all of you guys deserve a big chunk.

Live4flying: Just curious how posting a 12 million dollar plus profit last year is struggling. Lost money in the last quarter, but still came out way ahead. Fuel prices are hurting everybody right now, and Frontier had a one-time expense in the last fiscal year when they joined up with Horizon to make Frontier Jet Express. The fuel prices will return to something normal sometime soon, and F9 will continue to post a profit. I have no worries, or else I wouldn't have taken a 23K paycut to come here.

As for what I think a NJ pilot should be making, who cares about my opinion, but here it is. I think that the payscale should be by cabin size, weight, or something similar. While flying an Ultra or a Falcon 2000 is technically the same, the Falcon driver should get paid more because his responsibility is higher (as in the airplane costs more and can carry more passengers, meaning more liability for him). Here are numbers that I think would be fair and reasonable. First year captain in the Ultra 75K, with an annual 4 percent raise, and a 16 percent raise in year 5, giving a total around 98K. Sound reasonable? If you guys can get more by all means spend it while thinking of me.

cgmason1 and FracDaddy: I am going to be leaving for the airport for my first tour in the A319 in 3 hours. I have a 1400 show time, and I am going to be on the road for 31 hours, and then I will be home for 3 days. I know exactly where I am going, so I can pack for the weather. I don't have to ride in the back to get to work, my hotel room was set up years ago, along with my ride there. I don't have to throw any bags, file any flight plans, I finally get an airplane with an APU, and I will NEVER have to fly into Teterboro again. From my required observation rides I do believe the grass is greener over here, but when I get back Wednesday night I will come back and post my opinion of 121 line flying.

Until then, clear skies everyone.

Jetsi

 

[LR45JI]

Jetsi,

Congrats on the Frontier job!

Man, I have to tell ya - I REALLY miss the 121 flying...guess like bad relationships you tend to forget the bad stuff (ie. 16-hour duty days, we don't have those at NJA, 8-hour reduced rest overnights, etc....etc....) and remember all the good stuff....like walking on, turning left and closing the door.

Good luck at Frontier and I hope we make you mad you left the fractionals.

 

[Jetsi]

I just finished my first 121 line experience . . .

and all I can say is when can I do it again. It was freakin awesome!

Some (or all) of the fun may disappear eventually, but that was just the coolest thing ever. Sitting in a nice cold cockpit when it was hot as hell outside, had pukers on two flights and I didn't need to worry about cleaning (wasn't technique, CO in the summer is just plain BUMPY). Decent hotel, 19 hours of rest between gigs, and a great group of people to work with.

I was kinda nervous on the first leg, it being all new and stuff. I am still learning the operational techinques to the Airbus, but what a great airplane. Coming in to DEN tonight made a greaser on 16L (and it was ALL LUCK). Had a little girl, probably 3 years old, who wanted to see the cockpit. We talked for a few minutes, and when she left she gave us both a hug and a kiss on the cheek. What a change from "Would you like your arse wiped from front to back or back to front?"

Listen to me (or read me ;-) ), I am babbling like a schoolgirl. But I knew there had to be a job out there like this. I am just stoked.

If you are considering leaving the frax industry, I wouldn't have any second doubts about it. I know I won't overnight in TEX or ASE again, but I won't go to TEB either.

Anyway, gotta call it a night.

Clear skies,

Jetsi

 

[cgmason1]

Congrats Jetsi-sounds great.

How do you like the Airbus?
Been looking at the numbers for the A320 and can't get past the fact that they are all screwy since the conversion from the metric system.
169,754 max t/o wt.....what the!!!

Fly Safe
Chuck

 

[DIAMONDDD]

If you are considering leaving the frax industry, I wouldn't have any second doubts about it. I know I won't overnight in TEX or ASE again, but I won't go to TEB either.

Anyway, gotta call it a night.

Clear skies,

Jetsi

Careful, I remember thinking that when I got my Major airline gig that "I would never go to TEB again"
Three years and a furlough later and I am not only going back into TEB, but also as an SIC at about 1/3 the pay I used to get.
Hope it doesn't happen to you but never say never.
DDave

 

[Jetsi]

The next morning

The numbers on the Airbus are screwy. Fortunately those are about the only numbers you need to know. N1 and 2 speeds on the P&W were screwy, and so were flap and gear speeds on the LJ35 (not 200 knots, but 202 knots).

They are in the process of changing the brass around to the new logo, so I don't have any for my hat, meaning I don't have to wear my hat. YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

And if I become a REAL airline pilot and get furloughed I will probably go work at the supermarket. But I refuse to believe that could happen, just because I don't want that little cloud sitting over me all the time. Take the punches as they come.

But this thread is now way off of its original aspect. Lets get back to it. How were my proposed numbers? Right on, too high, too low? At NJ when you make captain do you go to a first year captain pay like FLOPS or do you get credit for years in service. Just in case someone asks what I think a 2000 driver should get paid, I want to know how it works over there.

Show me the money!

Jetsi

 

[USMC319]

"What is the difference between what an airline captain and a fractional captain? I mean all we do is sit up front and push buttons. But the pay is wayyyyyy different. Some things that I do that my airline captain wife doesn't.

fuel plane
clean plane
get their catering (make sure it's right)
open their car door
get their bags out and load them
brought the kitchen sink now i've got to figure out what to do with it
brief the owners
take off with them taping me on the shoulder before v1
serve food
serve drinks
figure out where your ride is at the fbo
do some circling aproach to some "really important airport" (read middle of nowhere)
get the bags out and the kitchen sink
pull the car around
load the car while the owner tips the line service who did nothing
clean the plane
stock the plane
cover the plane
figure out where the hotel is
try to find a ride to the hotel but nobody can give us a ride
ride in some smelly cab while the guy rips us off
overnight.

now repeat this 5 times a day for 7 straight. So are fractional pilots overpaid? I don't think so. I'm just trying to bring the pay up to the industry standard. That's the point we're not even close to the industry standard. So yes i'm underpaid."

Sounds like a pretty shi!!y job. You guys do need a pay raise.

 

[FLYLOW22]

and all I can say is when can I do it again. It was freakin awesome!

Some (or all) of the fun may disappear eventually, but that was just the coolest thing ever. Sitting in a nice cold cockpit when it was hot as hell outside, had pukers on two flights and I didn't need to worry about cleaning (wasn't technique, CO in the summer is just plain BUMPY). Decent hotel, 19 hours of rest between gigs, and a great group of people to work with.

Listen to me (or read me ;-) ), I am babbling like a schoolgirl. But I knew there had to be a job out there like this. I am just stoked.

If you are considering leaving the frax industry, I wouldn't have any second doubts about it. I know I won't overnight in TEX or ASE again, but I won't go to TEB either.

Jetsi,

I'm happy you are enjoying the "incredible eclectic jet". I too remember my 1st leg flown in the A320. Two cheeks in every seat, 2 jumpseaters... CLT to LAX, greaser on 24R and the whole deal. You couldn't wipe the smile from my face that errupted as I heard those CFMs spool up and start developing TOGA thrust. Heck, I nearly forgot my callouts on takeoff roll!!

Enjoy but temper yourself. You are rightfully excited BUT... Nothing lasts forever and NEVER say NEVER. The improbable can (and in this industry) evetually DOES happen. The FRAX industry is an infant still. It has yet to flesh itself out...

FLYLOW

P.S. USMC319... Why the hell did you ever clean up puke?? That's what FBOs are for dude!! HAHAH!!

 

[infoman]

Jetsi,

The paysacale at Netjets is time with company, not time in seat. If you upgraded at 2.5 years you are on 3 year captain pay...... as for pay ? I wants lots, and lots.

Have a Happy!

 

[swberry]

Something has been missed here. NJA pilots will not get a pay raise because they clean airplanes, or because they load baggage, or because they fly alot of legs, or because they do long duty days; blah blah. Management could care less about that. They do care about selling a service. If the pilots are not happy then the customers will not be happy then the company will not be able to sell their service. Thay have a vested interest in our happiness and they know it. They must keep pilots somewhat happy due to the demanding clientele we deal with. Fractional pilots do not walk into the airplane, turn left and close the door.

 

[boxhauler]

Except for the BBJ. F/O's are time in company Capts are year1 BBJ year2 BBJ etc.

 

[USMC319]

"P.S. USMC319... Why the hell did you ever clean up puke?? That's what FBOs are for dude!! HAHAH!!"

FLY LOW
I didn't say I had to clean up puke. I was merely quoting someone's list of fractional pilot "duties", and concurred that they need a raise to do such a shi!!y job. I've spent many years hanging around FBOs, waiting for passengers and doing all the crap that goes along with charter and corporate flying. It is a thankless job. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of respect given to the crews of light jets and TPs by those outside the group. If pay was predicated on the amount of overall responsibility and work conditions, then the frax guys would make more than the airline guys, but then again with that reasoning the single-pilot piston twin freighters would be the highest paid in the industry. In any case, work rules ultimately make the airline job most desirable and in most cases the best paying. It is hard to beat walking down the jet-way into your $45 million dollar bird, taking a left and strapping in and having almost everything already done for you. And there is this really cool button on the overhead panel, you just push it and a pretty flight attendant brings you a fresh cup of coffee!

 

[FLYLOW22]

Well.... You get coffee if you de-energize the defense fields, call off the dogs, drain the moat, turn off the TSA "laser" activated security system, tell the Air Marshals onboard that this is merely a coffee break and you find a FA that doesn't mind getting you the coffee.

All in all... I'd rather just reach behind the cutain and get it myself.

In my experience some FAs were great to fly with but many needed to be labeled INOP.

"Pretty" FA? I haven't seen one of those in.......

 

[FracCapt]

Well.... You get coffee if you de-energize the defense fields, call off the dogs, drain the moat, turn off the TSA "laser" activated security system, tell the Air Marshals onboard that this is merely a coffee break and you find a FA that doesn't mind getting you the coffee.

You forgot about having one of the FA's park a beverage cart across the isle and having another one standing guard in front of it....The one standing guard is usually Olga, the 50 year old 200lb Norwegian FA that even that Air Marshals are backing away from. It's then the ugly one that gets the coffee(and hope they don't do anything to it before it gets to you).

 

[USMC319]

FLYLOW,

C'mon, it looks like you once were flying an Airbus, do you really expect me to believe that you would rather contort your body around and fiddle with a curtain on a Citation to get a cup of coffee instead of pushing the button and moseying around the flight deck waiting for the FA? LOL

 

[FLYLOW22]

FLYLOW,

C'mon, it looks like you once were flying an Airbus, do you really expect me to believe that you would rather contort your body around and fiddle with a curtain on a Citation to get a cup of coffee instead of pushing the button and moseying around the flight deck waiting for the FA? LOL

HAHAHA! It just sounds like it now takes an "act of congress" to get a Cup o' Joe these days on an airliner. I guess I'd rather... well... yes... just reach behind while flying at 47,000 ft at .92M and get my coffee myself. Visene and spit free...

 

[USMC319]

FlyLow,

Well.......I'm not going to convince you that the airline lifestyle is better by having this silly coffee discussion, so I will digress. The C-750 is not a bad ride, but keep in mind FL470 and M0.92 will only impress your Mom. I've only tagged along in the right seat of the X a couple of times, I much prefer Falcon 2000. But as you might guess, I'd trade them all for a good old A-320. Have a good one.

 

[FLYLOW22]

FlyLow,

Well.......I'm not going to convince you that the airline lifestyle is better by having this silly coffee discussion, so I will digress. The C-750 is not a bad ride, but keep in mind FL470 and M0.92 will only impress your Mom. I've only tagged along in the right seat of the X a couple of times, I much prefer Falcon 2000. But as you might guess, I'd trade them all for a good old A-320. Have a good one.

Dude. It's good coffee!! It's starbucks. What are you drinking up there... Maxwell house? Hehehe.

FL470 impresses not only my mom but ATC in the flexibility we give them as you motor along and clog the airwaves in your Bus at .78M.

It impresses out owners as we get them to their transcon destination up to 1 hour earlier than a bus could.

It impresses me when I'm able to climb up over the top and look down on weather rather than deviating by 2 states to avoid it.

The front of the X IS a bit cramped... but I'm not in the thing all that much since we get there that much faster.

Beep beep... get on da bus.

 

[Lrjet55]

The only thing I have to add is as NJA X guys are crusing at FL470 they are thinking "how the hell am I going to pay the mortgage".


The guy in the bus is sitting at FL350 in the weather thinking "man this sucks but as soon as I get home I am going to play with my new -insert expensive toy here-"
Me personally, I'm in the Hawker so I have to sit in the weather AND wonder how I am going to pay the mortgage bill.

 

[FLYLOW22]

The only thing I have to add is as NJA X guys are crusing at FL470 they are thinking "how the hell am I going to pay the mortgage".


The guy in the bus is sitting at FL350 in the weather thinking "man this sucks but as soon as I get home I am going to play with my new -insert expensive toy here-"

I don't know how ANYONE in this industry (save a DAL pilot for now until Ch11) is paying for the mortgage. Pay rates at LCCs that we used to laugh at are now the benchmark?!?!!?

The grass isn't greener at FL350 dude. It's just another view of the same yard.