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NetJets Working on CASS Approval?

Voice Of Reason

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Today, 20:30 #19 Flopgut vbmenu_register("postmenu_1736151", true);
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If they aren't going to offer to haul me around with some degree o predictability then I sure as he!! don't want them on my jumpseat.

I had one of these guys insist on boarding early with the crew the other day. He was in uniform and felt that ought to be enough reason. The answer was no, so then he gets out his company paid for ticket. Here's the deal: these guys need to be passengers or non revs. Pick ONE! If they'll offer to haul us 121 types around with some degree of routine and predictability (and meat all criteria) then I'll be happy to offer a jumpseat. If not? I have no time for them

Exactly. And there are hundreds of such stories all over the majors and fracs boards both here and ALPC. They treat other frac guys with similar disrespect, and now they are reaping the results of that. It's not just one or two posts...there is a long history of this (and much worse) airlining behavior
 

imacdog

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VOR, you really are an idiot.
 

Voice Of Reason

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(ducking for the incoming organized onslaught of NJA in house union spin machine (its their constant M.O.) attempting to discredit me.. as if the people who haven't yet ALREADY experienced them riding on their planes are unable to use the search function here and on ALPC to see for themselves. How you've all carried yourselves to the majors and other pilots is coming home to roost.

Don't forget to throw all the usual red herrings in, so everyone forgets what you're up to)
 

Voice Of Reason

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You don't pass through security just because you're in CASS. We still go through like everyone else.

OK...so WHY then would NJA be trying for CASS? What is the point? Hoping some unsuspecting airline will believe their bs (even though there isn't even a REMOTE possibility of reciprocating) and let it slip through their jumpseat agreement?
Why else?

 

pilot772

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The rumor is we are working on it because of crew pass. Some genius's that TSA employs can't make the distinction between airline pilots and Frac pilots traveling on a ticket but in uniform. So when some of the airports started testing crew pass it caused major problems for our guys because we travel in uniform. the TSA sends you to the crew pass line the crew pass line in-turn sends you back to the regular line, and than they would do it all over again. I believe that if CASS were to be approved it would be for this purpose. We do go through the same background checks as everyone else, and for fwiw we do have a 121 (I believe)certificate now not sure if that will help or not.

Lastly this is strictly hearsay, but I heard that having CASS will possibly help us to start doing flights into DCA again. (again not sure if that is true or something else completely.)

Anyway we shall see where this project goes.
 

imacdog

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Tell me VOR, where have you seen any mention of jumpseating with this rumor of working on CASS approval? I'm just a normal pilot so what do I know, but the union-buster B19 is more subtle than you in trying to stir up animosity between pilot groups.
 

JungleJett

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IMHO I think that my jumpseat is for 121 airline pilots. If the PRIVILEGE get extended to fractional, then why cant private pilots use the JS as well.

Just because they are pilots does not mean that they are given the same airline benni's.

X

Nice attitude......

Honestly, I would not mind giving you 121 guys a ride if we could....even you ExpressJet folks...;)

The problem is that once you rode on us..we would never get the stink out!!


I kid......I kid......
 

Voice Of Reason

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The rumor is we are working on it because of crew pass. Some genius's that TSA employs can't make the distinction between airline pilots and Frac pilots traveling on a ticket but in uniform. So when some of the airports started testing crew pass it caused major problems for our guys because we travel in uniform. the TSA sends you to the crew pass line the crew pass line in-turn sends you back to the regular line, and than they would do it all over again. I believe that if CASS were to be approved it would be for this purpose. We do go through the same background checks as everyone else, and for fwiw we do have a 121 (I believe)certificate now not sure if that will help or not.

Lastly this is strictly hearsay, but I heard that having CASS will possibly help us to start doing flights into DCA again. (again not sure if that is true or something else completely.)

Anyway we shall see where this project goes.

Nothing wrong with that, if that IS really the case...just don't understand why it got so "confidential" when the (now pulled) thread on the fracs board started leaning toward jumpseat conversation, then trued to "it's confidential, can't talk about it.
Just sayin'. There wouldn't be a need for that if you stayed in the paying passenger line, and if a TSA tried to send you to an airline crew, advise them you are not airline crew and on a paying ticket and stay in your line. (That has never been a prob for NetJets crews saying that to others, and if a TSA'r pushed it after that, you point out to the crew line TSA that "he" took you out of tat line after you told the. Doubt it would happen after the initial phrase "NOT airline crew" though.
 

radarlove

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I don't get it. There is no "crew pass" line, unless I'm living in a different world. In some airports you have special "crew/employee" lines, but nobody has CASS up at security, CASS is only available at the ticket agent computers.

This whole rumor makes no sense. The only thing I can think of is maybe the TSA wants new security at FBOs (you know the TSA is drooling) or as a previous poster mentioned, Washington National security stuff.

But the whole bit of "In uniform with a ticket the airport doesn't know how to deal with us" sounds like utter BS. Show them your ticket, show them your driver's license and Bob's your uncle. The minimum-wage temps working the lines checking IDs (prior to the TSA) don't care if you're wearing a thong and vinyl gloves. As we all know, the TSA doesn't care either.

Now, if perhaps, just maybe...you're trying to beat the lines and just maybe try to use the employee-only line, I could, just perhaps (maybe?) see a fractional guy get sent right back to regular security.

Maybe you guys are trying to get through with the "flight crew members in uniform" not subject to shoes/liquids, and they're not having any of it without airline IDs. I could believe that.

Again, CASS is not even in place at security. There isn't even a way to check someone against CASS unless you're at the check in ticket counter, or the gate counter.
 
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pilot772

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Again, CASS is not even in place at security. There isn't even a way to check someone against CASS unless you're at the check in ticket counter, or the gate counter.

I know for a fact that they were testing crewpass/cass a few months ago in CAE. Have you ever tried to reason with the TSA? they only do what they are told and they equate uniform to crew, thus you have to be in uniform to get liquids through not in civvies and a badge. I have had it happen several time where I am in uniform but a selectee. I always put my liquids in the plastic bag (don't like wearing the uni home its only required on the first day and mid tour airlines.) But the TSA folks have no idea how to handle the situation I have had them just clear me and say, "your in uniform" even though I tell them I am a paying customer. I have had them give me the full search which is proper. Even had one send me back to the ticket counter saying something to the effect of I can't be a selectee and the airline has to fix it. (I just went to a different check point and had the full search. I am headed home tomorrow and am a selectee so we shall see what happens. The company is big on trying to recognize problems before they happen. There is the possibility going forward that the crew pass thing could cause confusion for our crew members and possibly affect owner flights. I believe this is the reason we are looking at it, that being said I have no inside knowledge.
As far as the crew lines (cass)being just for airline pilots I know there are plenty of 135 guys out there that use it also. (airnet, empire, keylime etc)

On a side note its a nice, civil, and lively debate tonight this is Flightinfo right.:beer:
 

MJ42

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I don't get it. There is no "crew pass" line, unless I'm living in a different world. In some airports you have special "crew/employee" lines, but nobody has CASS up at security, CASS is only available at the ticket agent computers.

This whole rumor makes no sense. The only thing I can think of is maybe the TSA wants new security at FBOs (you know the TSA is drooling) or as a previous poster mentioned, Washington National security stuff.

But the whole bit of "In uniform with a ticket the airport doesn't know how to deal with us" sounds like utter BS. Show them your ticket, show them your driver's license and Bob's your uncle. The minimum-wage temps working the lines checking IDs (prior to the TSA) don't care if you're wearing a thong and vinyl gloves. As we all know, the TSA doesn't care either.

Now, if perhaps, just maybe...you're trying to beat the lines and just maybe try to use the employee-only line, I could, just perhaps (maybe?) see a fractional guy get sent right back to regular security.

Maybe you guys are trying to get through with the "flight crew members in uniform" not subject to shoes/liquids, and they're not having any of it without airline IDs. I could believe that.

Again, CASS is not even in place at security. There isn't even a way to check someone against CASS unless you're at the check in ticket counter, or the gate counter.


Here ya go...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CWU/is_2008_July_18/ai_n27928166
 

GogglesPisano

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Do Frac guys go through the same 10-yr background check as 121 guys? That may be an issue, as well as who pays for it.

This reeks of Ford and Harrison.
 

Voice Of Reason

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Do Frac guys go through the same 10-yr background check as 121 guys? That may be an issue, as well as who pays for it.

This reeks of Ford and Harrison.

Do a board search for "Ford & Harrison," posts, and my screen name, anyone who need to know anything about F & H. (Not sure how it applies here though?)
 

waveflyer

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it would be sweet to be able to jumpseat on their private jets
 

Voice Of Reason

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That's exactly the Kool-Aid they hope you'll drink...Good luck on that. NOT happening.

it would be sweet to be able to jumpseat on their private jets


This thread is pointing out that fracs have tried, but can NOT reciprocate. (It will ALWAYS go back to the "We might have to change destinations mid flight to rescue another flight somewhere else." (poss. int'l as well)

...

I just think aside from being funny, it's a security issue, AND its a LIE because there is NO WAY reciprocating will occur, no matter how you try to spin and promise it.


Remember that the next time your guys pull that 'tude all over the airline system
 

radarlove

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Nope. That was a biometric test that allowed select crewmembers to avoid security altogether.

It was temporary and I believe it has ended.

I stand by the fact that CASS isn't available at security checkpoints. ALPA has argued that it should be (to bypass) but they haven't gotten anywhere, since CASS isn't biometric, according to those who make decisions.

Now I get the problem, if you're a selectee and you're in uniform, the TSA brain-surgeons start to have smoke come out their ears...because by definition crewmembers can't be selectees.

I don't think that non-121 crewmembers are covered under the shoes/liquids thing, but when I think back, it does just say, "Uniformed Crewmembers".

The problem is that you aren't a crew member, you're just in uniform.

Yet another wacky-yet-fun TSA deal.
 

Voice Of Reason

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If it worked out that way, we'd love to have ya. We would just have to make sure to stock some extra liquor? :p

Just when you jumpseat on the airlines, pay the pilots the fare refund from the ticket NJ pays to get you to work from HOME. That'd work.

Why again, do you at NJ need the jumpseat on the airlines?

Will it save the company money to keep NJ going in their pilot's quest to "save" everyone from the cattle cars of the airlines, as they always say on here?
 

Voice Of Reason

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I don't think that non-121 crewmembers are covered under the shoes/liquids thing, but when I think back, it does just say, "Uniformed Crewmembers".

The problem is that you aren't a crew member, you're just in uniform.

Would 'paying passengers' that vehemently announce they are "NOT airline," in Burger King uniforms be able to get on CASS?
Skycaps look just like airline pilots...how about when they travel? Can they jumpseat too?
Just wondering. :laugh:
 
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