NetJets Working on CASS Approval?

[Pervis]

VOR, why would this bother you to the point of fishing for outrage on the majors forum? Does this affect you and yours in a negative way, or are you just trying to outdo B19 with your tirades?

As far as jumpseating and reciprocol agreements, I have a couple thoughts. First of all, as VOR was so kind to point out, we keep all airline miles and add to that through various hotel point policies. Those tickets are far more reliable than jumpseating, and families don't qualify anyway. Since Netjets airlines us at their expense to and from work, why would we want to utilize jumpseating except for the rare solo vacation or weekend getaway?

I would love to have any crewmember accompany us when policy allows. I know it's rare we could accomodate anyone, but how about if we had an 800 number for 121 folks to call if they were looking for a repo flight with us from A to B? Even if it worked only 5% of the time, I'm sure the 121 folks would love it. Nothing like your own air taxi in style. You call when you need a lift from ATL to DEN, and we tell you what is available from within a 50 mile radius.

As far as CASS, I'm sure the announcement will be made public if it becomes official. If our management wants to go through the time, effort and expense, I'm sure they have their reasons. Netjets was the first or close to the first to get I94W approval as a non-121 carrier. I don't think CASS presents any bigger challenge, considering we fly past and future presidents, Secretaries of State, Ambassadors, and pillars of industry.

Why is it the top of the heap gets all the crap? I thought s--t rolled downhill. Why don't we all place blame for our woes or disdain where it belongs? Like the CEOs and managers who pillage the companies in a few years before departing with their golden parachutes. All those of us at NJA, or SWA, or Fedex, or UPS have in common is that we have a lot bigger fall to live with than most "when" the time comes. Been there and done that, as many here have. You know, the saddest thing is we have to worry about our own collegues as much as the pricks that steal our careers.

 

[FO 4 Life]

What would the SAFETY committee's stance be on CASS for self-admitted "paying passengers not airline crew" in order to fly through security without being checked the way other "paying passengers" do? Would that enable them to bring onboard items other paying passengers wouldn't (in theory) get through security?

What is the approval process for CASS? Do ALPA Safety Committees have a way to make their input known to those who do the approving?

You don't pass through security just because you're in CASS. We still go through like everyone else.

 

[radarlove]

I think this sounds like a wild rumor, similar to the whole "TSA wants jumpseat priviliges" thing that went around a while ago.

Except the TSA really was working on getting jumpseat access. I read the memo, it was during the time that the airlines were trying to get off-line access back (remember, it took CASS to get other airline's pilots in the jumpseat).

The TSA wanted to be included in the jumpseat authorization. They weren't clear on whether it was management TSA, or TSA in general, but I think ALPA threw a hissy and I never saw mention of it again.

But don't think for a minute that this was nothing but a wild rumor.

The other funny memo I saw around that time was the fact that the TSA exempted TSA management from screening. Kind of like Congress; lots of laws, but not so many that apply to Congress.

 

[Flopgut]

deleted

 

[Voice Of Reason]

VOR, why would this bother you to the point of fishing for outrage on the majors forum? Does this affect you and yours in a negative way, or are you just trying to outdo B19 with your tirades?

As far as jumpseating and reciprocol agreements, I have a couple thoughts. First of all, as VOR was so kind to point out, we keep all airline miles and add to that through various hotel point policies. Those tickets are far more reliable than jumpseating, and families don't qualify anyway. Since Netjets airlines us at their expense to and from work, why would we want to utilize jumpseating except for the rare solo vacation or weekend getaway?

I would love to have any crewmember accompany us when policy allows. I know it's rare we could accomodate anyone, but how about if we had an 800 number for 121 folks to call if they were looking for a repo flight with us from A to B? Even if it worked only 5% of the time, I'm sure the 121 folks would love it. Nothing like your own air taxi in style. You call when you need a lift from ATL to DEN, and we tell you what is available from within a 50 mile radius.

As far as CASS, I'm sure the announcement will be made public if it becomes official. If our management wants to go through the time, effort and expense, I'm sure they have their reasons. Netjets was the first or close to the first to get I94W approval as a non-121 carrier. I don't think CASS presents any bigger challenge, considering we fly past and future presidents, Secretaries of State, Ambassadors, and pillars of industry.

Why is it the top of the heap gets all the crap? I thought s--t rolled downhill. Why don't we all place blame for our woes or disdain where it belongs? Like the CEOs and managers who pillage the companies in a few years before departing with their golden parachutes. All those of us at NJA, or SWA, or Fedex, or UPS have in common is that we have a lot bigger fall to live with than most "when" the time comes. Been there and done that, as many here have. You know, the saddest thing is we have to worry about from our own within than the pricks that steal our careers.

This thread is pointing out the hypocrasies of the NJA attitude toward EVERY other pilot group over the past few years, majors or not

This thread is pointing out that fracs have tried, but can NOT reciprocate. (It will ALWAYS go back to the "We might have to change destinations mid flight to rescue another flight somewhere else."

This thread is pointing out that those who point out OVER and OVER all over FlightInfo and ALPC that they are "paying passengers" and "demand" respect from airline crews, should have to go through security like ANY OTHER paying passenger.

This thread is pointing out that now that NJA is losing $ like they have always said they never would (you know all those "cream of the crop" posts and Uncle Warren's subsidiary comments as if you are immune and are saving those who can escape the "cattle cars")...NOW...NOW...they want to be buddies with guys at the majors?

Funny dude. Just came to say "I told you so" when it comes to karma and the way you've treated ALL other pilot groups all this time.

Spin it whatever way you want...you conveniently got the posts removed that were talking about CASS...so go back to your secret secret planning that you're up to.

I just think aside from being funny, it's a security issue, AND its a LIE because there is NO WAY reciprocating will occur, no matter how you try to spin and promise it.

Bottom line, regardless of my disgust for the dismissive and downright contemptuous attitudes your pilot group has promoted to ALL of the other pilots groups during your brief delusion of being THE "final destination" and spouting that to anyone around, you guys are up to something you shouldn't be.

How are things working out now that you all dropped your national union (IBT) who got you your present bennies in favor of an in house (ala ASAPA USair)? Reason to want to network again, I guess?

...and now you're angry because I passed on the beans your guys spilled? Enquiring minds NEEDED to know.

Remember that the next time your guys pull that 'tude all over the airline system

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Today, 20:30 #19 Flopgut vbmenu_register("postmenu_1736151", true);
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If they aren't going to offer to haul me around with some degree o predictability then I sure as he!! don't want them on my jumpseat.

I had one of these guys insist on boarding early with the crew the other day. He was in uniform and felt that ought to be enough reason. The answer was no, so then he gets out his company paid for ticket. Here's the deal: these guys need to be passengers or non revs. Pick ONE! If they'll offer to haul us 121 types around with some degree of routine and predictability (and meat all criteria) then I'll be happy to offer a jumpseat. If not? I have no time for them

Exactly. And there are hundreds of such stories all over the majors and fracs boards both here and ALPC. They treat other frac guys with similar disrespect, and now they are reaping the results of that. It's not just one or two posts...there is a long history of this (and much worse) airlining behavior

 

[imacdog]

VOR, you really are an idiot.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

(ducking for the incoming organized onslaught of NJA in house union spin machine (its their constant M.O.) attempting to discredit me.. as if the people who haven't yet ALREADY experienced them riding on their planes are unable to use the search function here and on ALPC to see for themselves. How you've all carried yourselves to the majors and other pilots is coming home to roost.

Don't forget to throw all the usual red herrings in, so everyone forgets what you're up to)

 

[Voice Of Reason]

You don't pass through security just because you're in CASS. We still go through like everyone else.

OK...so WHY then would NJA be trying for CASS? What is the point? Hoping some unsuspecting airline will believe their bs (even though there isn't even a REMOTE possibility of reciprocating) and let it slip through their jumpseat agreement?
Why else?

 

[pilot772]

The rumor is we are working on it because of crew pass. Some genius's that TSA employs can't make the distinction between airline pilots and Frac pilots traveling on a ticket but in uniform. So when some of the airports started testing crew pass it caused major problems for our guys because we travel in uniform. the TSA sends you to the crew pass line the crew pass line in-turn sends you back to the regular line, and than they would do it all over again. I believe that if CASS were to be approved it would be for this purpose. We do go through the same background checks as everyone else, and for fwiw we do have a 121 (I believe)certificate now not sure if that will help or not.

Lastly this is strictly hearsay, but I heard that having CASS will possibly help us to start doing flights into DCA again. (again not sure if that is true or something else completely.)

Anyway we shall see where this project goes.

 

[imacdog]

Tell me VOR, where have you seen any mention of jumpseating with this rumor of working on CASS approval? I'm just a normal pilot so what do I know, but the union-buster B19 is more subtle than you in trying to stir up animosity between pilot groups.

 

[JungleJett]

IMHO I think that my jumpseat is for 121 airline pilots. If the PRIVILEGE get extended to fractional, then why cant private pilots use the JS as well.

Just because they are pilots does not mean that they are given the same airline benni's.

X

Nice attitude......

Honestly, I would not mind giving you 121 guys a ride if we could....even you ExpressJet folks...

The problem is that once you rode on us..we would never get the stink out!!


I kid......I kid......

 

[Voice Of Reason]

The rumor is we are working on it because of crew pass. Some genius's that TSA employs can't make the distinction between airline pilots and Frac pilots traveling on a ticket but in uniform. So when some of the airports started testing crew pass it caused major problems for our guys because we travel in uniform. the TSA sends you to the crew pass line the crew pass line in-turn sends you back to the regular line, and than they would do it all over again. I believe that if CASS were to be approved it would be for this purpose. We do go through the same background checks as everyone else, and for fwiw we do have a 121 (I believe)certificate now not sure if that will help or not.

Lastly this is strictly hearsay, but I heard that having CASS will possibly help us to start doing flights into DCA again. (again not sure if that is true or something else completely.)

Anyway we shall see where this project goes.

Nothing wrong with that, if that IS really the case...just don't understand why it got so "confidential" when the (now pulled) thread on the fracs board started leaning toward jumpseat conversation, then trued to "it's confidential, can't talk about it.
Just sayin'. There wouldn't be a need for that if you stayed in the paying passenger line, and if a TSA tried to send you to an airline crew, advise them you are not airline crew and on a paying ticket and stay in your line. (That has never been a prob for NetJets crews saying that to others, and if a TSA'r pushed it after that, you point out to the crew line TSA that "he" took you out of tat line after you told the. Doubt it would happen after the initial phrase "NOT airline crew" though.

 

[radarlove]

I don't get it. There is no "crew pass" line, unless I'm living in a different world. In some airports you have special "crew/employee" lines, but nobody has CASS up at security, CASS is only available at the ticket agent computers.

This whole rumor makes no sense. The only thing I can think of is maybe the TSA wants new security at FBOs (you know the TSA is drooling) or as a previous poster mentioned, Washington National security stuff.

But the whole bit of "In uniform with a ticket the airport doesn't know how to deal with us" sounds like utter BS. Show them your ticket, show them your driver's license and Bob's your uncle. The minimum-wage temps working the lines checking IDs (prior to the TSA) don't care if you're wearing a thong and vinyl gloves. As we all know, the TSA doesn't care either.

Now, if perhaps, just maybe...you're trying to beat the lines and just maybe try to use the employee-only line, I could, just perhaps (maybe?) see a fractional guy get sent right back to regular security.

Maybe you guys are trying to get through with the "flight crew members in uniform" not subject to shoes/liquids, and they're not having any of it without airline IDs. I could believe that.

Again, CASS is not even in place at security. There isn't even a way to check someone against CASS unless you're at the check in ticket counter, or the gate counter.

 

[pilot772]

Again, CASS is not even in place at security. There isn't even a way to check someone against CASS unless you're at the check in ticket counter, or the gate counter.

I know for a fact that they were testing crewpass/cass a few months ago in CAE. Have you ever tried to reason with the TSA? they only do what they are told and they equate uniform to crew, thus you have to be in uniform to get liquids through not in civvies and a badge. I have had it happen several time where I am in uniform but a selectee. I always put my liquids in the plastic bag (don't like wearing the uni home its only required on the first day and mid tour airlines.) But the TSA folks have no idea how to handle the situation I have had them just clear me and say, "your in uniform" even though I tell them I am a paying customer. I have had them give me the full search which is proper. Even had one send me back to the ticket counter saying something to the effect of I can't be a selectee and the airline has to fix it. (I just went to a different check point and had the full search. I am headed home tomorrow and am a selectee so we shall see what happens. The company is big on trying to recognize problems before they happen. There is the possibility going forward that the crew pass thing could cause confusion for our crew members and possibly affect owner flights. I believe this is the reason we are looking at it, that being said I have no inside knowledge.
As far as the crew lines (cass)being just for airline pilots I know there are plenty of 135 guys out there that use it also. (airnet, empire, keylime etc)

On a side note its a nice, civil, and lively debate tonight this is Flightinfo right.:beer: