NetJets To Picket

[LAZYB]

When y'all in the union world describe the company I fly for, I don't even recognize it. Just a different way of looking at things, I suppose. I have a great time, get paid a lot, and don't consider Hansell a dictator. I know BN, and think he is an excellent manager and a good person. I can't imagine a better company to work for. Sorry.

Is Billy doing any follow up visits to the potential Jamaica hub?

 

[Hawker dude]

I urge you to listen to Luthi's rantings with a grain of salt...

whatever G4.
I have my own opinions.

It's not like you being a robot. or acting like cattle in a field and doing whatever management says.
I have my own opinion. and that is "my union speaks for me"

you sir. need to go back in the field and roam with all the other cattle.

 

[barnyard]

When y'all in the union world describe the company I fly for, I don't even recognize it. Just a different way of looking at things, I suppose. I have a great time, get paid a lot, and don't consider Hansell a dictator. I know BN, and think he is an excellent manager and a good person. I can't imagine a better company to work for. Sorry.

There is no way in hell you are a professional, career pilot. Go away, management troll.

 

[BentOver]

G4 is just proving how lame this management team is..... This is the best they can do!

By far the worst attempt at Union busting I have witnessed. That, along with that silly blog.... very transparent...Airline management is much more convincing than these bunch of clowns...

 

[doylehargraves]

Good luck but, a picket, strike, or anything resembling a "strong-arm" showing does not have the same effect in this industry that it would in the airline industry. People are not loyal to airlines, they go for the cheapest ticket. In our industry, as we all know, the customer is a different animal and not part of the sheep in the rest of the world. The way your customers will view this is paramount to the effect your picket will have on a select few at your home office.

There are two ways it can be viewed by your customers; the company treats its employees negatively or the employees are dissatisfied with their company. Both of which are, well, bad. Do the customers know how business works, yes. Do they understand these kind of things, yes. At the end of the day though, there are going to be those customers that will think that their service is being compromised in some way by the negative impact of this display. You're not happy, otherwise, why picket? That is how it is viewed, like it or not.

I understand what you're doing and hope it works out but, I don't think anyone realizes the impact this could have on your customers. What if there are potential customers or existing customers visiting the home office the day of the picket?

I understand the need for this and you guys are in a union but, I have to think as someone said earlier that 6 figure employees picketing just doesn't look right in this industry (my opinion); however, we'll take any disgruntled customers that want to leave. Good luck.

 

[NachoMamma]

Good luck but, a picket, strike, or anything resembling a "strong-arm" showing does not have the same effect in this industry that it would in the airline industry. People are not loyal to airlines, they go for the cheapest ticket. In our industry, as we all know, the customer is a different animal and not part of the sheep in the rest of the world. The way your customers will view this is paramount to the effect your picket will have on a select few at your home office.

There are two ways it can be viewed by your customers; the company treats its employees negatively or the employees are dissatisfied with their company. Both of which are, well, bad. Do the customers know how business works, yes. Do they understand these kind of things, yes. At the end of the day though, there are going to be those customers that will think that their service is being compromised in some way by the negative impact of this display. You're not happy, otherwise, why picket? That is how it is viewed, like it or not.

I understand what you're doing and hope it works out but, I don't think anyone realizes the impact this could have on your customers. What if there are potential customers or existing customers visiting the home office the day of the picket?

I understand the need for this and you guys are in a union but, I have to think as someone said earlier that 6 figure employees picketing just doesn't look right in this industry (my opinion); however, we'll take any disgruntled customers that want to leave. Good luck.

Excellent post!

 

[fischman]

Good luck but, a picket, strike, or anything resembling a "strong-arm" showing does not have the same effect in this industry that it would in the airline industry. People are not loyal to airlines, they go for the cheapest ticket. In our industry, as we all know, the customer is a different animal and not part of the sheep in the rest of the world. The way your customers will view this is paramount to the effect your picket will have on a select few at your home office.

There are two ways it can be viewed by your customers; the company treats its employees negatively or the employees are dissatisfied with their company. Both of which are, well, bad. Do the customers know how business works, yes. Do they understand these kind of things, yes. At the end of the day though, there are going to be those customers that will think that their service is being compromised in some way by the negative impact of this display. You're not happy, otherwise, why picket? That is how it is viewed, like it or not.

I understand what you're doing and hope it works out but, I don't think anyone realizes the impact this could have on your customers. What if there are potential customers or existing customers visiting the home office the day of the picket?

I understand the need for this and you guys are in a union but, I have to think as someone said earlier that 6 figure employees picketing just doesn't look right in this industry (my opinion); however, we'll take any disgruntled customers that want to leave. Good luck.

Not everyone picketing makes 6 figures. IBT 284 will be there as will some of our First Officers.

 

[mtnrunner]

A lot of customers would like to join the picket. Many of the customers are more pissed at this management than most the employees appear to be.

A long time Gulfstream customer said today:
"Good on them, Warren should know better. I wish I could be there with those employees holding signs. I stick with NetJets because of the employees, not management."

 

[Hawkered]

With the large number of old airframes, the high number of returns on those airframes and no new aircraft for over a year...we may not have left to fight over for much longer.

 

[jtf]

Unfortunately, the only ways that will make the company stop messing with our contract are pain (financial) and embarassment. They are trying to steal from each and every one of us by attacking the contract. I'm hoping that this embarassment will be enough for them to see the light, but I think it will probably only open their eyes that the sleeping bear is waking up and doesn't put up with getting kicked. That said, I support the picket 100% and wish I wasn't on the road so I could be their for it.

 

[OPECJet]

With the large number of old airframes, the high number of returns on those airframes and no new aircraft for over a year...we may not have left to fight over for much longer.

Bingo.

Meanwhile G4, and the rest of NJA management will blame NJASAP on all the woes rather than provide real leadership out of a mess.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Can't wait to picket again. I'll bring the brandy and hot chocolate if it's freezing.

Should be a lot of Xmas shoppers shopping in the area. Can we wear Santa or Grinch hats with our uniforms?

 

[OPECJet]

Grinch hats are reserved for Jordie.

 

[realityman]

My first comment is in regards to those who are disparaging "six-figure" employees (I believe someone even referred to us as six-figure 'morons') for picketing.

My question to you is, when would be a good time to picket? Right now, we have a nice compensation package. Decent salary, very good 401K matching, full medical, etc... So when should we picket? You seem to think we shouldn't based on our compensation. So if they make the 401K worse (maybe by switching administrators against the contract), is that a good time to picket? How about if they suddently alter our medical coverage to make it worse in some way, or make us start paying a premium (all against the contract of course), will thAt be a good time? Do we have to wait until we're five-figure salaried employees before we picket?

How far into our contract do you believe we have to let them go before we express our displeasure through other measures than the minor dispute process?

It's interesting to watch the dual personalities of pilots. On the one hand, pilots tend to be pretty harsh on other pilots who don't stand their ground and help make aviation a better career. There's always talk about the 'race to the bottom', and how this group or that group is only making it worse, and how could they settle for such a crappy contract?

On the other hand, when a group has a good contract, and then attempts to take action to prevent themselves from becoming a part of that 'race to the bottom', suddenly the observing pilots are saying we're crazy for doing so, we'll end up hurting the company if we do, and we'd just be a bunch of six-figure morons walking in circles.

Unfortunately, the company has more tools at their disposal to whittle away what we have. Even doing illegal things, such as violating the contract, works in their favor, because it can take us a very long time to set things right (the 401k switch will be a long process following the 'regular route' of the minor dispute process).

So what are we supposed to do? We're darned if we do, and darned if we don't.

As far as the general public is concerned, I don't care what they think. They aren't our target audience on this one. As far as owners, or potential owners are concerned, I highly doubt this tiny little picket will cause any kind of drop in our business. And if it does chase off one or two potential or existing clients, well, maybe that will be a good lesson for management. If they keep whittling away at our contract, this will eventually become just another crappy aviation job, and at that point, I could care less about how many clients we have. After all, there are still lots of crappy jobs out there to have. It's the good ones that a hard to find, and I'd prefer to keep this as a good one.

Remember, we aren't greedy pilots asking for more more MORE with this picket. We're simply expressing displeasure that management doesn't seem to want to honor the (legally binding) contract we already have. Just trying to maintain.

Management has been lobbing lots of shots across our bow for the past year or so. This little picket is just us lobbing a shot across their bow and letting them know we can step things up too if they don't want to deal fairly with us.

 

[BentOver]

Well said reality!!

What some don't understand is NJA is a very good job, but only with the current CBA in place. NJA pilots, especially those who need the 18 day schedule to survive, are on the road ALOT! And compared to most corporate/charter departments, do ALOT of work behind the scenes multiple times a day VS getting the plane cleaned up once or twice in a trip. Thus the need for a somewhat superior contract/pay/benefits..

If you take those away, then NJA is worse than mom-and-pop charter OR corporate jobs. Especialy considering the amount of time spent away from home.

I never would have left my slightly lower paying charter job for NJA if the contract wasn't as good. Home almost every night, out and backs to TEB, PBI, CLE. Hell, my neighbors thought I was a teacher our first summer in our new house. I was home all the time...

My current job pays better than Netjets and I'm away from home flying maybe 12 hrs a week, but as far as benefits, schedule(on call), QOL, it is somewhat worse. Take away those at NJA and there would be no real reason to consider going back. *Not that NJA is looking like a viable option anyways...*

 

[doylehargraves]

If they are not legally honoring the binding contract as you state then why is this not pursued in court? What good is a picket going to do if they are already breaking the law?

And, I wasn't saying that it was just 6 figure salaries, I was generalizing because the majority of all of us make ALOT more than the average middle income person. I don't know when a good time to picket is, no clue because I'm not in a union. I thought picketing was generally used for a work stoppage to force the company to negotiate a deal?? Good luck with all that is all I'm saying.

 

[OPECJet]

If they are not legally honoring the binding contract as you state then why is this not pursued in court? What good is a picket going to do if they are already breaking the law?

And, I wasn't saying that it was just 6 figure salaries, I was generalizing because the majority of all of us make ALOT more than the average middle income person. I don't know when a good time to picket is, no clue because I'm not in a union. I thought picketing was generally used for a work stoppage to force the company to negotiate a deal?? Good luck with all that is all I'm saying.

Picketing is different than a work stoppage. It's public display condemning a management action or actions. It can of course be used during a work stoppage (self help under the RLA), but is not exclusive to that.

Under the RLA, bargaining employees don't go to court under a minor dispute, which this is one. A grievance is filed by the union, which is heard by the System Board of Adjustment made up of members from both the union and management. If they deadlock / no decision, the union files for arbitration with the arbitrator's decision being binding. Arbitration usually takes a while. If the company does not capitulate to the arbitrator's decision, it can then go to court.

While waiting for this arbitration the company will continue it's activity the union feels violates the contract and can allow major damage in some cases. The pilot group has no recourse during it's wait other than using tactics, such as picketing to get their point across. It must maintain the status quo. It's no different that passing the amendable date of a CBA.

Let me add the caveat that since tone of voice and intent can be lost in a post, this is only meant to answer your question in a non-condescending tone. Many pilots both union and non-union don't understand the RLA and what you can and can't do under it.

 

[rajflyboy]

Good luck but, a picket, strike, or anything resembling a "strong-arm" showing does not have the same effect in this industry that it would in the airline industry. People are not loyal to airlines, they go for the cheapest ticket. In our industry, as we all know, the customer is a different animal and not part of the sheep in the rest of the world. The way your customers will view this is paramount to the effect your picket will have on a select few at your home office.

There are two ways it can be viewed by your customers; the company treats its employees negatively or the employees are dissatisfied with their company. Both of which are, well, bad. Do the customers know how business works, yes. Do they understand these kind of things, yes. At the end of the day though, there are going to be those customers that will think that their service is being compromised in some way by the negative impact of this display. You're not happy, otherwise, why picket? That is how it is viewed, like it or not.

I understand what you're doing and hope it works out but, I don't think anyone realizes the impact this could have on your customers. What if there are potential customers or existing customers visiting the home office the day of the picket?

I understand the need for this and you guys are in a union but, I have to think as someone said earlier that 6 figure employees picketing just doesn't look right in this industry (my opinion); however, we'll take any disgruntled customers that want to leave. Good luck.

The pilots have already picketed with success in the past.

 

[rajflyboy]

As far as this picket goes?

It appears its too little too late? 401k will already be switched by the time this picket takes place.

2nd >> we are not negotiating a contract yet.

 

[BentOver]

Can't wait to picket again. I'll bring the brandy and hot chocolate if it's freezing.

Should be a lot of Xmas shoppers shopping in the area. Can we wear Santa or Grinch hats with our uniforms?

Atleast after the picket there will be many places to go for lunch!! Easton at noon...always was a tough lunch decision