NetJets Strike Vote Fails

[been-there]

I firmly believe that this was the pilot's doing, not anyone else's.

Absolute bull!

You know why I know your full of it? Any crew who "makes stuff up" like your "duty limits" scenario would be fired. No crews have been fired lately for that.

 

[hammer2]

How did you become an owner. The crew probably was pi$$ed because they were assigned a trip that they could not accept. They knew they going to make pax angry by explaining the whole abortion to them. Why don't you figure out who the idiot was that assigned the trip. then you might figure out that the crews are the ones who make your little flying world purr, by overcoming these little obstacles that Dispatch/ Scheduling and owner serv fail to see.

 

[hammer2]

to the avmgr

That was to avmgr. new here

 

[J3 Guy]

These Netjet pilots need to wake up and realize they are not working with a bunch of dummies on the cleint end.
I am sure that crew in the X were feeding the px bull, they just wanted to hang around the fbo longer and bitch about the company.
It's their decision to keep working for sub wages.

(No crews have been fired lately for that)

J3

 

[Majik]

Obviously you have that bad attitude that Owners love to see. If the MEC is doing exactly what the pilots want them to do, why is it that more and more pilots are trying talk some sense to the head of your MEC as he has stated: many of pilots have contacted me on “issues of concern,” regarding the way they are handling negotiations? Rest assured that as long as the Union’s perspective is that ability to pay goes far beyond a ledger or Profit and Loss statement there will be no end to abeyance and no agreement. It is easy to see where you get your bad attitude, from the MEC Leadership.

I get nothing but praise from the owners I fly. When they are unhappy, it's because their owner service team failed to update them on required fuel stops, alternate airports caused by weather, order their catering, arrange their ground transportation, adjust their departure time, or something of that nature.

Somebody could make their household books show that they can't afford one thin dime for obligated child support payments. That doesn't mean they ought to be justified in not taking care of their children. Just means they need to re-prioritize their obligations. Santulli is smarter than you give him credit. I think he has the ability to make a profit and pay his employees a market wage. I just don't think he will until he has to. It's our job to make sure he knows he has to. If that's a bad attitude, color me guilty.

 

[Hogprint]

CMHtroll said:

If it was pilots excerising their god given right to proceede as slowly as possible in preflight and reviewing the brief until they would go over on duty time, then that needs to be corrected.

OK troll, you know as well as I that in this example it was NOT the crew exercising their god given right to preflight and review briefs. I would add though that it is a NETJETS REQUIREMENT to do a thorough preflight and review of all data concerning their flight.

I did intend to defend a crew that was being disparaged by a supposed owner. Not necessarily to lay blame at the feet of any one entity in CMH.

Having said all that if the shoe fits......

 

[FLYLOW22]

Originally Posted by FLYLOW22
Sounds to me like SCHEDULING should have allocated a different crew to your trip. There are several other operators who look at regulations with a bleary eye.

Your words:
The trip was plain and clear, it required a crew that could fly nonstop on a CX from SFO to New York. What is so hard to understand about this? I'm just not buying the fact that scheduling did this to us.

My response:
It happens all the time. Everyday. It is the job of the crew to call "UNCLE" when the whims of Owner Services and Scheduling (Fantasy) no longer line up with the strictures of Flight Operations (Fact). They called "Uncle" and if they were in the wrong, would not have been allowed to do so (unless for reasons of sickness or fatigue). They exercises OPERATIONAL CONTROL of the aircraft in the interests of the FARS (if your info is correct).

My words:
The crew ran out of duty time.

Your words:
Why if they indeed were short of duty time (which I don't believe they were) were they placed on this mission?

My response:
You can believe what you will. The regs are the regs. 91K has deblt a significant change to the way that FRACTIONAL (not charter) pilots can be scheduled. The 91K Flight Crew Duty Time and Rest Requirements are quite simple. 14 hours of duty followed by 10 hours of "Rest".

There are other possibilities here as well. I have been in the exact same scenario you describe (changing planes mid flight at another desination with the same owner onboard) for 2 completely different reasons.

1. The plane needed to be somewhere else the next day for Maintenance and the crew flying lacked the dutytime to fly from West Coast to East Coast and then to the Service Center.

2. The crew (or 1 pilot) was not going to be able to complete your flight and then get home prior to 14 hours of duty or by midnight. NJA must get us home after being on the road for 7 days in a row by the end of the 7th day.


Summary,

Respectfully, I am guessing here and trying to think outside of the "pilot hating" box. Since you seem to lack all of the facts I suggest maybe you seek them out or by all means continue to make up a reality that seems right in your mind. The choice is yours. NJA Pilot shave no beef with Owners. We love you guys! You pay the bills... the money just isn't making it to the pilots. Hell I made 40K last year as a Captain!!

It would be great to take you out on tour for a few days just to show you some of the issues we deal with on a daily basis. I would consider it an honor.

Ultimately I am dissapointed that your "NJA Experience" failed to meet your expectations. I think that we are debating about symptoms here rather than the cause though.

 

[Majik]

It's their decision to keep working for sub wages.
J3

It's also our decision (and our right under the RLA) to try to correct that through negotiations while we keep working for substandard wages. The owners are just caught between the pilots and Santulli until we work this out. Maybe we'll reach a mutual agreement before we lose too many owners. Doesn't seem to be adversely affecting the business. For every owner NetJets loses, Santulli is able to sell multiple Marquis cards to a line of waiting buyers for twice the revenue, so he is making even more money. Maybe this is his new business strategy and we're just helping him rebuild his core fleet to make room for the more profitable Marquis market.

 

[Hogprint]

PMVULB says:

This is a scheduling problem not a crew problem. How much time in advance did you give the schedulers? Over a weeks notice on the trip, with SPECIFIC mention that I needed the speed of the X to make for a short treancon flight. What were some of the other circumstances? How much clearer can I make it, I NEED THE SPEED! Did you complain to your Owner service rep? Obviously. What did they tell you? They couldn't believe it![/i]

OK. Let's break this down. You called over a week in advance. That particular crew did not have this info a week in advance, but you KNOW this right? OK, we know you need the SPEED. Don't we all? You obviously contacted your rep, and here is the crux, what exactly could they not believe? The CREW or THE SCHEDULE, OR THEIR OWN DEPARTMENT?


Exactly what did you want this crew to do? Fly past their FAA mandated duty day/flight time? I find it absolutely impossible to believe that this crew was out of time. My passenger was ON TIME for his departure!!! You need to wake up pal. Wake up for what reason. The mission was plain and clear, and was given to NJ that way. Unfortunately we see this more and more on the road. Once again...not the crews problem. Scheduling knew this crew was on the tail end of their day. Why am I not buying this?????

Why do you find it impossible to believe. We're telling you this is happening on the road constantly since the implementation of 91k. It is just a fact. Believe it or not. It is appreciated that your pax was on time. Was the crew late for their departure? Is that what I'm reading between the lines that your trying to say here? Or had you not thought of that yet?
The mission was clear to NJA, but looks like it wasn't to the pilots or schedulers.


If you are this arrogant and ignorant of the rules we must abide by, then by all means, do us ALL a favor and look at the rest. I've been in Corporate Aviation for over 33 years now, and thankfully can say that I've been very successful in the business. You don't get that way by being arrogant and ignorant of any rules. I run one of the most respected flight departments on the East Coast, and every job I've ever had except my first one was offered to me, not me looking for it.

For someone with all this experience, this sure threw you for a loop. This is everyday boilerplate in frax flying. I guess your a newbie. Just what flight dept do you run anyway? Why weren't your boys flying this trip?

Rest assured, we are laying in the bed that Netjets has made. I don't like it and you don't seem to like it.

.[/QUOTE]

but this incident is BS.

If you are really an owner (and I have my doubts) then I agree. NETJETS let you down.

I think the crew shafted us, I am certain of this. Also, the way it was done, without any kind of appolgy on their part, proves that.

Just tell us how you are CERTAIN of this! Why are you demanding an apology from the pilots? Your venom should be directed straight at CMH.

We just experienced another HIT job on one of our crews. Almost had a couple of our boys fired. I wonder if your that type of rabble rouser?

 

[hammer2]

J3 I'm sure they aren't dummies, they don't see the big picture. The whole flight department is supposed to work as a team to make sure the owners get the best service possible, without jeopardizing the pax nor the crew. By assigning a trip on a crew w/out the duty time to complete the trip is against the companies rules & FARs, nor could the crew accept the entire trip per company & FARs. If the crew accepted the trip the dummies on the client end would pile more of these situations on them. If managment looked at the waste created by the dummies on the client end, all of us in the frac business wouldn't be working for sub wages.