NetJets Strike Vote Fails

[Hogprint]

DukeofDub said:

I believe that the MEC UNION Leadership "Stonewalled" when they refused to look at the books and we ended up in abeyance.

They did look at the books. They wanted to look at more books...that is where the impasse is.

 

[x402]

X402 You once again have missed the point. What FAcFriend was saying is the he believes that the MEC UNION Leadership is leading many of the less experience line folks down the primrose path.


No, I got his pathetic point, and yours. Hope you're not one of our X pilots.

 

[FAcFriend]

They did look at the books. They wanted to look at more books...that is where the impasse is.

And here we go again.

Gosh what are we going to talk about when this is settled. We are in a circle now.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Books do not matter. Pilot salaries come from management fees according to BB. If that is the case I do not care about anything else.

Its like a word problem.

Given: Bill has 3 houses. He sold one last year and this year he will buy 6, and sell 1 other. Frank has 4 houses and Jack has 7.

How much is 2 plus 2?


Who gives a hoot about all the extraneous information. I do not need to know it to answer the question.

The only relevant question is ... What must management fees be in order to pay Pilots per NBAA standards?

Its like Fuel Charges. Do I need to look at all the books to determine what to charge Owners for fuel? No. I only need to look at Fuel Costs.

Likewise when determining management fees we only need to look at the cost of items that are covered by management fees. Pilot costs are part of the items covered by management fees.

 

[dukeofdub]

Books do not matter. Pilot salaries come from management fees according to BB. If that is the case I do not care about anything else.

The only relevant question is ... What must management fees be in order to pay Pilots per NBAA standards?

Likewise when determining management fees we only need to look at the cost of items that are covered by management fees. Pilot costs are part of the items covered by management fees.

So do you intend to raise management fees? You must look at all the costs associated with management fees as they are the major source of income. Therfore the intelligent thing to do is to look at all the books and understand the cost of all aspects and all income streams. If you just look at management fees you would lose 30% of the potential income to the Company.

 

[hammer2]

Whats the turnover at NetJets? Talked with a FLOPs dude he said they are losing ten a month.

 

[El Chupacabra]

So do you intend to raise management fees? You must look at all the costs associated with management fees as they are the major source of income. Therfore the intelligent thing to do is to look at all the books and understand the cost of all aspects and all income streams. If you just look at management fees you would lose 30% of the potential income to the Company.

I do not know why its so difficult. When fuel prices go up we charge more for fuel. When pilot prices go up charge more for pilots.

BB has said pilot salaries come from management fees. How will looking at other revenues help me.... it just gives management an excuse to cry poor.

Yes raise management fees.

Keep it simple. If my pay comes from management fees, make sure those fees are enough to do the job.

 

[Hogprint]

Whats the turnover at NetJets? Talked with a FLOPs dude he said they are losing ten a month.

That number is accurate for NJA also.

What makes me worry more is we have lost 170 owners since the first of the year.

Is it time to man the life rafts?

 

[been-there]

That number is accurate for NJA also.

What makes me worry more is we have lost 170 owners since the first of the year.

Is it time to man the life rafts?

Thats the plan. Lose 170 quarter share owners and then sell 1360 marquis cards.

 

[PMVULB AvMgr]

What makes me worry more is we have lost 170 owners since the first of the year.

Is it time to man the life rafts?

As an owner, I had a request where I told my account mgr that I need to upgrade my contracted aircraft type to a Citation X, since my passenger needed to get from SFO to NYC the quickest way possible. I made the time element of the request very clear.

Pax gets to the aircraft at SFO, only to be told by the crew that since they are going to go past their duty limits, they will stop in Columbus for a crew change!!!! No I'm sorry, no we don't know how this happened, no excuse what-so-ever!

If this is the attitude displayed, you guys better be manning the life rafts. I'm sure we're not the only owner to have to put up with these types of childish games.

And when the contract comes up for renewal, you can bet that I'm going to be looking very closely at FX, CS & FO, something I would have never done before!

You made your beds, now lie in them!

 

[been-there]

Pax gets to the aircraft at SFO, only to be told by the crew that since they are going to go past their duty limits, they will stop in Columbus for a crew change!!!!

It's the FAA that mandates duty limits.

 

[Hogprint]

As an owner, I had a request where I told my account mgr that I need to upgrade my contracted aircraft type to a Citation X, since my passenger needed to get from SFO to NYC the quickest way possible. I made the time element of the request very clear.

Pax gets to the aircraft at SFO, only to be told by the crew that since they are going to go past their duty limits, they will stop in Columbus for a crew change!!!! No I'm sorry, no we don't know how this happened, no excuse what-so-ever!

This is a scheduling problem not a crew problem. How much time in advance did you give the schedulers? What were some of the other circumstances? Did you complain to your Owner service rep? What did they tell you?

If this is the attitude displayed, you guys better be manning the life rafts. I'm sure we're not the only owner to have to put up with these types of childish games.

Exactly what did you want this crew to do? Fly past their FAA mandated duty day/flight time? You need to wake up pal. Unfortunately we see this more and more on the road. Once again...not the crews problem. Scheduling knew this crew was on the tail end of their day.

And when the contract comes up for renewal, you can bet that I'm going to be looking very closely at FX, CS & FO, something I would have never done before!

If you are this arrogant and ignorant of the rules we must abide by, then by all means, do us ALL a favor and look at the rest.

You made your beds, now lie in them!

Rest assured, we are laying in the bed that Netjets has made. I don't like it and you don't seem to like it.

Let me ask you this...do you ever feel this company has lied to you? Do you feel your not getting your moneys worth of your "Netjets experience"? Do you feel you being squeezed out by card holders?

Have you even thought about this or do you just blame the crew for something they had no control over?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Sounds to me like SCHEDULING should have allocated a different crew to your trip. There are several other operators who look at regulations with a bleary eye.


The crew ran out of duty time.

 

[CMHTroll]

Rest assured, we are laying in the bed that Netjets has made. I don't like it and you don't seem to like it.

Let me ask you this...do you ever feel this company has lied to you? Do you feel your not getting your moneys worth of your "Netjets experience"? Do you feel you being squeezed out by card holders?

Have you even thought about this or do you just blame the crew for something they had no control over?

Nobody likes it when something like this happens. It appears that you are fueling the fire of the "attitude." It is unfortunate and somebody, somewhere made an error that caused the issue. If it was scheduling then it needs to be corrected. If it was pilots excerising their god given right to proceede as slowly as possible in preflight and reviewing the brief until they would go over on duty time, then that needs to be corrected. It used to be that everyone worked to give the Owners the NetJets experience, but more and more the Owners recieve the Strong Union ecperience and they don't like the "attitude."

 

[Majik]

As an owner, I had a request where I told my account mgr that I need to upgrade my contracted aircraft type to a Citation X, since my passenger needed to get from SFO to NYC the quickest way possible. I made the time element of the request very clear.

Pax gets to the aircraft at SFO, only to be told by the crew that since they are going to go past their duty limits, they will stop in Columbus for a crew change!!!! No I'm sorry, no we don't know how this happened, no excuse what-so-ever!

If this is the attitude displayed, you guys better be manning the life rafts. I'm sure we're not the only owner to have to put up with these types of childish games.

And when the contract comes up for renewal, you can bet that I'm going to be looking very closely at FX, CS & FO, something I would have never done before!

You made your beds, now lie in them!

First, let me tell you that I feel your pain. Countless times the company hangs their pilots out there with no rhyme or reason as to why they screwed up an owner's request. I do believe that the crew had no knowledge of your trip requirements until you made it known to them. Otherwise, why would the company assign them your trip when they know and track every crew's duty day? Sounds like your problem lies with your Owner Services Team and Scheduling, not the pilots. We only do what the Head Shed tells us to and we won't break any FARs for you. If we did, trust me, the company would self-disclose us to the FAA in a heartbeat and we would be the ones left holding the bag. Maybe Flex Jet, Flight Options, Citation Shares, or some other pilots will break the rules for you but I wouldn't depend on it.

Again, sorry that Owner Services or Scheduling gave you the shaft. Hope you voice your concerns with the folks that caused you this inconvenience and not the pilots.