NetJets seniority

[Spooky 1]

How is seniority established within a new hire class? Age/birthdate, date of interview or?

Thanks in advance

 

[flywest]

Its done by age: Older = more senior

 

[Fracster]

Seniority means very little at NJA. The schedules are awarded on seniority but not with the right percentages. Trips are not assigned based on seniority but rather who kisses arse more. Airplanes assignments are based on whats available at the time of the employment offer. Vacations are the only schedule that is truly seniority based without outside influence.

As always its a sh!t job so make sure you aware entering this venture with eyes wide open.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Seniority means very little at NJA. The schedules are awarded on seniority but not with the right percentages. Trips are not assigned based on seniority but rather who kisses arse more. Airplanes assignments are based on whats available at the time of the employment offer. Vacations are the only schedule that is truly seniority based without outside influence.

As always its a sh!t job so make sure you aware entering this venture with eyes wide open.

Given the level of frustration, a little hyperbole can be excused. Yes, seniority is assigned w/in the class by age. And now, folks go thru indoc first. Yes, arse kissing does occur but you have an inflated sense of self worth if you think the schedulers are out to deliberately screw you in particular. To be honest, I don't think most of them know whether their own arses are drilled or punched and most of the trips are quite random in their assignment. This explains the waste as well as anything. They just don't have it together. That said, there is deliberate favoritism re the type of trips that the NJI guys do everyday and with the over time pay that you get for working extended days (sometimes just after midnights). So, most are busting their humps flying a lot of legs while a few are doing the same or less work and making decent pay.
Of course, this varies by fleet. To my knowledge, the non-APU a/c don't even have an A-team.

 

[Flying Illini]

The way you say it, being on the "A-team" is a bad thing...is that correct?

 

[hydrarkt]

Where seniority really DOES matter is in schedule bidding for the 7 and 7 schedule. Only half of each fleet gets 7 and 7 and it's bid by seniority. There is a LOT of plane changing now with pilots in larger airplanes going to smaller airplanes in order to get the 7 and 7. This, of course, hurts the company overall. But until there is a new contract, this will continue.
BTW, there is a good chance that much of the "A" team favoritism will be eliminated from the "just after midnight" deal. A little birdie told me

 

[dsptchrnja]

They just don't have it together.

How easy is it to criticize a job that you've never done a day in your life?

 

[Diesel]

dispatchrnja-

The same goes for you.

 

[dsptchrnja]

...trips are quite random in their assignment. This explains the waste as well as anything... So, most are busting their humps flying a lot of legs while a few are doing the same or less work and making decent pay.

Do you have access to Ijet? Do you see every crew line for every tail the company is flying every day and do you watch it throughout the day to see how changes develop and how decisions are made? If not then I suggest not being so dogmatic in your assumptions.

 

[dsptchrnja]

dispatchrnja-

The same goes for you.

I knew their was something we could agree on Diesel

 

[Cavpilot]

How easy is it to criticize a job that you've never done a day in your life?

You know Dsptchr, I have been lurking in the background on his board reading the absolute nonsense that you and the other company shills have been spewing. But this was the last straw for me to keep my silence. Is scheduling's job easy? No, I don't think it is. But you know what, neither is mine (yes, I'm an NJA pilot).The standard that I am held to is merely perfection. Thats right, if I make a mistake I am summoned to Bridgeway, violated, terminated or dead.
So frankly, I don't give a rats ass if scheduling has a difficult job. That is no exuse for piss poor performance.

 

[dsptchrnja]

No one said your job was easy.

No one in NJA is perfect, but they hold us all equally accountable in direct proportion to the level of responsibility we have accepted.

No one said anything about the level of difficulty of being an NJA scheduler. What I did try to say was that you can't criticize them for "piss poor performance" until you know the how, when, what, where, who, and why. Do you appreciate being judged by others that have never done your job? Particularly when they don't have the whole story? You just sound angry. Schedulers are an easy target, I know.

Or perhaps you have fundamental, objective differences on how scheduling should be changed. If you were in their shoes tomorrow what would you do differently that the schedulers sitting there now have never thought of? Perhaps some of them who review this board could constructively answer the specific complaints you have and clear up some confusion.

 

[Some Dude]

Hmmm. I remember a certain scheduler that had a plane ferry from CMH to CA. It turns out she was riding in the back out to CA for her vacation.

You can punch a hole in the wall and not get fired if you are a certain scheduler. They are not held to any standards at all. Of course the job is NOT easy. It is difficult but you cannot compare their job to ours.

 

[stingray]

but they hold us all equally accountable in direct proportion to the level of responsibility we have accepted.

.

That is complete Bull. People in CMH are no where near held accountable as the pilot group is.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Your entitled to your opinion... but it's not too convincing.

 

[Cavpilot]

No one in NJA is perfect, but they hold us all equally accountable in direct proportion to the level of responsibility we have accepted.

I don't believe that for a second. If a pilot makes an error, it is out there for everyone to see. Everyone from Owner Services to the Chief Pilot want a piece of your ass. If a scheduler makes a mistake, they can cover their tracks with more bad scheduling. There is not a pilot out there that has not seen it happen.

What I did try to say was that you can't criticize them for "piss poor performance" until you know the how, when, what, where, who, and why.

Guess what release faxer, the pilots are the ones on the business end of scheduling's "piss poor performance". We know what a lousy job they do because we are the ones excecuting their illconceved, poorly thought out plans.

If you were in their shoes tomorrow what would you do differently that the schedulers sitting there now have never thought of?

First of all, I would put a line pilot in charge of scheduling, not another scheduler. Then I would put some accountability in place, because it is obvious that the fox is watching the henhouse.

Dispatcher, I work hard for this company, and I am getting sick and tired of solving all of the f*** ups from Bridgeway. If every department in the casino was held to the same standard as the pilots were, I doubt we would be having this discussion.

 

[Sarka]

Can you feel the love? I can.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Yeah, Release Faxer; be glad the pilots are held to such a standard. It allows you to screw up and get away with it. Now get back to crewops.com because you can't access this site from Bridgeway.

 

[Fracster]

but they hold us all equally accountable in direct proportion to the level of responsibility we have accepted.

I've never heard such BS. Owner services, scheduling, dispatch are not held accountable to anyone for anything. Never have, never will. I will say that dispatch isnt nearly as bad as Owner services and scheduling but they still should be better.

For being 121 certified, a loosely used term, there should be no mistakes.

As for owner services and scheduling, those fifedoms will never change. They are and will be the demise of NetJets.

 

[El Chupacabra]

IMO... you are making a mistake by assailing the work of other departments.

You do this in reaction to people posting who SAY they work in one department or another. But do they really?

The people in those departments have their hands tied (by upper management) in similar manner that you do.

After several tries of why don't we do it this way... wouldn't it be better IF....

You just do what they tell you to do and punch out when your shift is over. Think about it. After I close the hatch and get on an airline home... I do not worry how the ship I just left is running. Its up to the next guy.

The workers in other departments did not selloff the core fleet. They did not create the sales quotas that oversell the fleet.

 

[Ultra Grump]

El Chup - well said. See? We do agree on something!

 

[Diesel]

Plus look at how overworked disptaching is. They don't have time to do anything else. They make mistakes they are human but it's the incredible stress of doing faster, quicker more across every friggin fleet that makes the mistakes.

We can reduce a ton of mistakes by just having dispatcher that dispatch one fleet. The needs of a 400xp are far different than the needs of the X. How is a dispatcher supposed remember each and every little detail when we set them up to fail?

 

[Fracster]

Chup,

I agree their hands are tied in certain situations but efficient or punitive scheduling is just that. It does not require upper level management to do so. The owner services people who consistently outright lie to the pax are doing so without pressure from management. Maybe its low moral character, maybe its something else.

 

[El Chupacabra]

My other point Fracster is that we cannot let trolls who may or may not be truthful about what they do for the company... incite us beyond where we need to go.

One or a few posts obviously made to measure or deflate support for our MEC. Its a joke. We love this MEC... in overwhelming numbers.

"Tell your MEC to show you the money"... PLEASE....

Its just bait.

No MEC endorsement on the lowball offer rumoured to be coming = overwhelming NO vote.

Ring-a-Ling. Hear them sing.​

Soon it will be Christmas Day.​

​

"I know what your thinking. Did he fire 6 shots or just 5? You feeling lucky Punk? Well do ya?"

 

[Fracster]

True, true.

 

[Sarka]

IMO... you are making a mistake by assailing the work of other departments.

I agree. You are directing your frustrations at the wrong people.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I've never heard such BS. Owner services, scheduling, dispatch are not held accountable to anyone for anything. Never have, never will. I will say that dispatch isnt nearly as bad as Owner services and scheduling but they still should be better.

So what are you basing this assesment on? Facts? Gut feeling? Perception?

Do you have any idea how many flight center employees have been disciplined and/or let go? Do you have any idea how many managers have been let go?

You guys are quick to lament the frequent turnover in mgmt ranks but do you have any idea how many have been let go or forced out?

If you've got some statistics showing the number of people in each category that have been let go I'd love to see them.....

I have no idea what discipline has been levied in the pilot ranks and rightfully so, it's none of my business. By the same token, I doubt the pilots have any idea of the discipline levied in the employee or manager ranks, nor should they as it is none of their business.

IMO... you are making a mistake by assailing the work of other departments.

This is clearly the most intelligent post you've made on these boards El Chup. Good advice that everyone should follow.

 

[dsptchrnja]

I don't believe that for a second. If a pilot makes an error, it is out there for everyone to see. Everyone from Owner Services to the Chief Pilot want a piece of your ass. If a scheduler makes a mistake, they can cover their tracks with more bad scheduling. There is not a pilot out there that has not seen it happen.

Guess what release faxer, the pilots are the ones on the business end of scheduling's "piss poor performance". We know what a lousy job they do because we are the ones excecuting their illconceved, poorly thought out plans.

First of all, I would put a line pilot in charge of scheduling, not another scheduler. Then I would put some accountability in place, because it is obvious that the fox is watching the henhouse.

Dispatcher, I work hard for this company, and I am getting sick and tired of solving all of the f*** ups from Bridgeway. If every department in the casino was held to the same standard as the pilots were, I doubt we would be having this discussion.

You know, you make it so tempting and so easy to get on here everyday like you guys do and just talk about all the pilot errors and screw ups I deal with every day... but you know what? Ain't gonna do it out of the respect for the 95% of great poeple we have at this company and my own plain dignity. You have got to be one of the most arrogant people I have ever heard run their mouth off on this board.

As Dale Carnagie said:

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain... and most fools do.​

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[dsptchrnja]

I've never heard such BS. Owner services, scheduling, dispatch are not held accountable to anyone for anything. Never have, never will. I will say that dispatch isnt nearly as bad as Owner services and scheduling but they still should be better.

I already proved in earlier posts that we are held accountable so you saying otherwise means nothing.

For being 121 certified, a loosely used term, there should be no mistakes.

Hmmm.. perfection is quite a standard - Can you give me an exmple of a 121 operation out there that doesn't make any mistakes?

So how would you rate if I applied that same standard to you that you expect from us? Do you even want to go there?

As for owner services and scheduling, those fifedoms will never change. They are and will be the demise of NetJets.

Hmmm... Dale Carnagie comes to mind quite often tonight...

 

[Cavpilot]

I already proved in earlier posts that we are held accountable so you saying otherwise means nothing.

Then why are the same screw ups still here? I deal with stupid scheduling three out of ever six (or more) days a tour. As I have said before, the pilots are the ones that have to put up with schedulings poorly thought out plans. I have numerous examples, but I will not be specific on an open web site.

I said it before, and I will say it again; I think that Netjets is a great Company. Unfortunatly, there are are a lot people in Bridgway doing their best (unwittingly) to bring it all down. I don't care what is spelled out in the next contract, if the managment does not change we are all doomed.