Netjets - Say Hello To Your First Global

[gunfyter]

JJ - I agree with you.

:nuts: I just threw up a little in my mouth uke:

:laugh:

 

[johnsonrod]

Now for the more "touchy" question: will all of the current Gulfstream drivers automatically jump to the Globals on a one-for-one basis as airplanes arrive? What about the senior legacy NJA pilots - can they bid the new aircraft type per their seniority? As a legacy NJI pilot, do you automatically get a seat on the Global? How does that work? Obviously I don't know the contents of your latest contract - especially NJI integration issues.

Not trying to stir the pot - just curious considering the NJI pilots were separate from the original NJA union... Personally, if I were a senior Citation X pilot, I would want a crack at the new Globals before a junior Gulfstream pilot with fewer years on the line (especially because it is a new aircraft type requiring new training, etc.) - but that's just me.

Thanks for any OBJECTIVE insight if possible.

 

[Jack Campbell]

I've had the same questions as JR since they announced the Global purchase. Will a G-IV captain hired in, let's say, 2004 get a displacement bid into a Global? I say he should not be eligible, but the company is allowed to offer it to him. If NJ is going to maintain a seniority-based system, those guys should be able to bid what their seniority holds. Yet another thing that'll be really interesting to watch at my former (and future?) employer over the next 2 years.

 

[johnsonrod]

If Netjets were keeping the Gulfsteams long term - say the G450/550 and maybe some new G650s, I could understand the rationale for keeping the Gulfstream pilots in place given their type ratings and international flying experience, etc. Given that the Globals are new and require different training (new type), does that argument hold true? I know one Netjets Sovereign pilot who flew C-17s and C-141s worldwide and would have no problem flying Globals internationally.

Is Netjets contractually obligated now (per the contract and integration formula) to reposition current Gulfstream pilots into the Globals as they arrive? How will that work?

 

[BentOver]

I think I remember something about the Globals going to bid just like every other a/c....As far as displacement bids, IF there were to be a displacement out of the Gulfstreams, those pilots can bid whatever is available. Much like what is going to probably occur with pilots in the Beechjet, Hawkers, Ultra's etc... There should be a lot of plane switching in the next couple years.....Plus there are still the Phenoms coming up, and also whatever Mid-Size announcements are made. (My bet is the CL-300 and new Citation TEN)

But as far as I know there is no special bid awards given to Gulfstream pilots for being with the former NJI.

On top of that, many many non-NJI pilots have loads of international experience. Many many furloughed pilots have loads of international experience. The fact that NJI pilots have the traditional monopoly on the "INTERNATIONAL" moniker should make zero difference who gets awarded a Global position.

Many NJA pilots "could have" bid over to the Gulfstreams throughout the years. Many have never done it or wanted to simply for the length of legs etc.... Heck, there are Ultra pilots who could be in the X or Falcon etc, who haven't done it simply on what they want out of their week on.

 

[johnsonrod]

I think I remember something about the Globals going to bid just like every other a/c....As far as displacement bids, IF there were to be a displacement out of the Gulfstreams, those pilots can bid whatever is available. Much like what is going to probably occur with pilots in the Beechjet, Hawkers, Ultra's etc... There should be a lot of plane switching in the next couple years.....Plus there are still the Phenoms coming up, and also whatever Mid-Size announcements are made. (My bet is the CL-300 and new Citation TEN)

But as far as I know there is no special bid awards given to Gulfstream pilots for being with the former NJI.

Thanks for that. So, let's say you are a junior GIVSP FO (legacy NJI pilot who joined before the integration and you were not furloughed). Is there a higher likelihood that you will jump to the Global as an FO or will you be bidding whatever you could hold per your seniority (perhaps the XLS or X)? On the other side of the coin, will a current legacy NJA pilot (say a G200 Captain with good seniority) have a chance of bidding the Global in the next few years?

Just curious because the NJA/NJI integration was never really explained clearly. Now that a new aircraft type is being introduced at the higher end, it would be interesting to understand the integration implications for the combined pilots... Again, not trying to stir the pot!

 

[BentOver]

Thanks for that. So, let's say you are a junior GIVSP FO (legacy NJI pilot who joined before the integration and you were not furloughed). Is there a higher likelihood that you will jump to the Global as an FO or will you be bidding whatever you could hold per your seniority (perhaps the XLS or X)? On the other side of the coin, will a current legacy NJA pilot (say a G200 Captain with good seniority) have a chance of bidding the Global in the next few years?

Just curious because the NJA/NJI integration was never really explained clearly. Now that a new aircraft type is being introduced at the higher end, it would be interesting to understand the integration implications for the combined pilots... Again, not trying to stir the pot!

I guess it would depend on whether or not very many Captains bid for Global FO.. (I guess it does happen?)... With only about 500-600 SIC's out of 2500 pilots anything could be possible with a junior SIC (junior is relative based on 500 furloughees, SIC's being here atleast 5-6 years etc. It's hard to call anyone junior anymore:beer:... IMO fractional flying and bidding is a special type of bidding. A Global with a 12 hr duration time is not real appealing to some vs. being on a slower fleet and spending more down time at hotels etc....with 1-2 hr leg lengths. There is more of a difference between fleets here than say at Delta. (with the exception of long haul international stuff vs. an MD88) With no bases and no set schedule and where seniority really doesn't play a whole lot of role in schedule it comes down to a few key items..

1) Amount of work
2) FA vs non FA
3)Value of the type rating. (trust me, after this furlough I have anew found passion for collecting valuable types)
4) APU vs non-APU
5)Reputation of the pilots in each fleet. (some fleets have a few more dingbats than others according to popular opinion!)

 

[imacdog]

Thanks for that. So, let's say you are a junior GIVSP FO (legacy NJI pilot who joined before the integration and you were not furloughed). Is there a higher likelihood that you will jump to the Global as an FO or will you be bidding whatever you could hold per your seniority (perhaps the XLS or X)? On the other side of the coin, will a current legacy NJA pilot (say a G200 Captain with good seniority) have a chance of bidding the Global in the next few years?

Just curious because the NJA/NJI integration was never really explained clearly. Now that a new aircraft type is being introduced at the higher end, it would be interesting to understand the integration implications for the combined pilots... Again, not trying to stir the pot!

I think it'll all come down to how the bid is released. If it's released as a displacement bid, then whoever is getting displaced from their fleet will have first shot. Otherwise, the Global would be treated as any other non-G fleet and go to the entire seniority list for bid.

 

[G4dude]

I think it'll all come down to how the bid is released. If it's released as a displacement bid, then whoever is getting displaced from their fleet will have first shot. Otherwise, the Global would be treated as any other non-G fleet and go to the entire seniority list for bid.

Imacdog has it exactly right, I think. Also, none of the G guys and gals I have talked with intend to try for the Global. They say they don't want to fly with all those senior A pilots. Having too much fun with our old friends in the Gs. My sentiments match theirs. Go figure.

 

[G4dude]

Imacdog has it exactly right, I think. Also, none of the G guys and gals I have talked with intend to try for the Global. They say they don't want to fly with all those senior A pilots. Having too much fun with our old friends in the Gs. My sentiments match theirs. Go figure.

Finishing my thought, the Global will be available for senior bids unencumbered by competition from non-displaced G pilots, looks like.

 

[johnsonrod]

Imacdog has it exactly right, I think. Also, none of the G guys and gals I have talked with intend to try for the Global. They say they don't want to fly with all those senior A pilots. Having too much fun with our old friends in the Gs. My sentiments match theirs. Go figure.

So, does that assume that the Gs will stick around for awhile as the Globals are phased in? Won't the Globals be replacing the entire Gulfstream fleet? Or will the fleet ultimately include a mix of Gulfstreams and Globals? Sorry, I guess I am a bit confused.... Thanks for any clarification.

 

[BentOver]

So, does that assume that the Gs will stick around for awhile as the Globals are phased in? Won't the Globals be replacing the entire Gulfstream fleet? Or will the fleet ultimately include a mix of Gulfstreams and Globals? Sorry, I guess I am a bit confused.... Thanks for any clarification.

I think that is a million $ question..... Of course we'd like them all to stay! Not sure if anyone other than the EMT knows the master plan.....

I'm certainly not listening to Luthi's take on it if he has one... According to him, every other fractional is kicking NJA's butt, and then this week it becomes apparent they are not.

There's speculation what the fleet will look like.. (no more Beechjets/800's or Ultra's) add Phenom's... Other than that who the hell knows. The X's are getting old, but there are new TEN's to be available later next year.

 

[AftCG182]

...According to him, every other fractional is kicking NJA's butt, and then this week it becomes apparent they are not...QUOTE]

With the exception of Avantair. Reference the February BCA article. We ARE kicking butts...

 

[BentOver]

...According to him, every other fractional is kicking NJA's butt, and then this week it becomes apparent they are not...QUOTE]

With the exception of Avantair. Reference the February BCA article. We ARE kicking butts...

:beer:

I'll give ya that... But I gotta say, it's on a different playing field.....Different segment of the market.....

 

[7on7Off]

With the exception of Avantair. Reference the February BCA article. We ARE kicking butts...

Same article said we were doing well too; we expect an announcement tomorrow night telling us that we're going out of business.