NETJETS Profits...UP UP and AWAY!

[CA1900]

Hey FG!

Just for the record, got my brief for tomorrow. Have to airline PIT-LAX. Hmmm........a number of nonstop flights exist on that route. Guess what I'm doing? PIT-PHX-LAX.

He's right, you're just not seeing the big picture. If you were put on a direct flight, the scheduler wouldn't be able to check that little box that you had a "long enough" duty day, and thus you were being "utilized" adequately. Nevermind that you're just going to go to a hotel, and wouldn't be producing any revenue either way. It's all about filling up the day.

 

[fischman]

No anger or hostility here. I’m actually very happy with my life. I have a great family, great friends, and a great job with a great company.

I think part of what makes me happy with what I have is that I’ve been on the other side….I’ve worked for a unionized mainline carrier and I’ve worked for crappy companies that don’t take care of their people. So when you find a good company it makes you appreciate it even more.

That said, I do find your question somewhat ironic because I've wondered the same thing about so many of the union supporters on this board. A new reader of this board could easily get the impression that NetJets is a bad place to work, what with all the angst and wringing of hands here.

Of course, what is everyone bitching about? Crew food and HBA for new hires? If that’s all you have to bitch about then life is pretty damn good.

What I do find disturbing is that so many relatively new hires (5 years or less) have no appreciation for their good fortune and just want to bitch and publicly disparage our CEO and other leaders. Many of these same whiners have actually been laid off from mainline carriers, but instead of being grateful for finding a safe harbor in this economic storm that has beset the aviation world for the last 6 years, all they can think of is recreating their airline world here.

So they’ve imported airline style bargaining, and airline union attitudes. It’s probably inevitable that the company will resort to the same tactics and use airline style bargaining practices as well. For the life of me I can’t figure out why anyone would leave a dying business model and yet try to recreate that same environment in their new home.

I, for one, want nothing of that airline mentality imported into NetJets. I’ve seen a lot of my friends work for years at a legacy carrier only to lose their jobs and receive a fraction of their benefits. Why would anyone want to replicate that model?

You want to re-read that and explain how that doesn't insult every one of us? Your "tone" implies nothing but disgust and contempt. I thought you said you had the upmost respect for the pilots at NetJets? Doesn't sound like it to me... Which side of the rope are you on?

Dan Rosenthal (Maybe you know him. He works in the office of the chairman) mentioned that the domicile business plan will only REALLY work if they are able to get all the pilots in the same 5 cities. I asked him if he actually thinks 1108 will approve that, and he answered no. I stared in disbelief and silence...

Why do we have domiciles then? Sounds like someone isn't pulling on the same side of the rope. I wonder why we don't trust them.

Or you.

P.S. I agree with Flylow. If the company wants to do away with crew food, I will gladly park my plane to go eat. The food will be better, and I can get what I want instead of being told what I can eat like a 3 year old. Until then I suggest management figures out a way to comply with 20.7 or watch the grievances pile up.

 

[RNObased]

Hey FG!

Just for the record, got my brief for tomorrow. Have to airline PIT-LAX. Hmmm........a number of nonstop flights exist on that route. Guess what I'm doing? PIT-PHX-LAX.

So what were you saying about getting us to planes faster?






Crickets........................

Hey guys, don't you know by now that FG doesn't deal with the facts??? Looking at the facts, gets in the way of gazing at the big picture.

 

[NJA Capt]

Sure, it would be nice if we could change crews in large cities. It would also be nice if we could do all of our maintenance in large cities as well. Unfortunately it just doesnt work out that way all the time. That's the fractional 'on demand' model.

You control what you can, to the best of your abilities, but there are no guarantees.

FG,
There are plenty of guarantees but people refuse to see them.

As eluded to above. You have a crew that passes through TEB or PBI in the middle of the day. Instead of changing crews in TEB/PBI, we elect to let them continue to Quincy, IL where they duty out. That afternoon, scheduling gets another crew to Quincy to pickup the plane and the first crew is stranded. The following day the 1st crew must be traveled to another aircraft effectively wasting another duty day. In addition to 4-6 airline tickets and half a duty day for each crew.

If crews were swapped in TEB when the "chance was provided," we wouldn't have wasted so much time and money.

The pilot utilization mantra is meaningless. Aircraft utilization should be the primary effort.

They've been used for neither?

I guess all that work maintenance has been doing to focus aircraft on LAX and PBI for overnight mx has just been wasted....

From our vantage point yes. I couldn't tell you the last time I picked up a plane from mx in LAX or PBI. Call LAX an see how many QS's are in mx and then call MCO, GSO, SWF, LIT, and TOL.

 

[FamilyGuy]

You want to re-read that and explain how that doesn't insult every one of us? Your "tone" implies nothing but disgust and contempt. I thought you said you had the upmost respect for the pilots at NetJets? Doesn't sound like it to me... Which side of the rope are you on?

How do you take that quote - aimed at people complaining about what are relatively minor issues - and extrapolate it into an attack on all pilots at NetJets?

Regardless of how you 'perceive' the 'tone' it is a valid point, one that you've already validated in your earlier posts...

Here's the evidence in case you've already forgotten how good you have it after a little over one year at NetJets...

I'll never go back to a regional or a major. No scheduling pressures, crew food:erm: , 7 off, decent pay (once you upgrade which if you got hired today at NJA I would assume to be between 3 to 5 years), nice aircraft, no commute (if you live in your domicile), hotel and airline points (I get about 400,000 Hilton points a year; enough for a week in Hawaii or 10 days in Orlando with the kids)

Screw the regionals!
I've been there, done that. Commuting twice a week. Sleeping in the crew lounge, or car. $40,000/year at year 3 fo and no hope for upgrade. You got a job in 6 months? Who knows. Feeling lucky to have enough time to eat at Burger King. NO THANKS!!! I will NEVER go back to the airlines. NEVER!!!

NJA is better by far. You know you will have a job in 5 years. decent hotels. No commuting. crew food + per diem. upgrade possibilities. decent pay. clean planes. 7&7 schedule. The most important point of all: you might get to fly with me.

NJA is the way to go

P.S. I agree with Flylow. If the company wants to do away with crew food, I will gladly park my plane to go eat. The food will be better, and I can get what I want instead of being told what I can eat like a 3 year old. Until then I suggest management figures out a way to comply with 20.7 or watch the grievances pile up.

Amazing how quickly some people forget the past...

 

[FamilyGuy]

FG,
There are plenty of guarantees but people refuse to see them.

As eluded to above. You have a crew that passes through TEB or PBI in the middle of the day. Instead of changing crews in TEB/PBI, we elect to let them continue to Quincy, IL where they duty out. That afternoon, scheduling gets another crew to Quincy to pickup the plane and the first crew is stranded. The following day the 1st crew must be traveled to another aircraft effectively wasting another duty day. In addition to 4-6 airline tickets and half a duty day for each crew.

If crews were swapped in TEB when the "chance was provided," we wouldn't have wasted so much time and money.

The pilot utilization mantra is meaningless. Aircraft utilization should be the primary effort.


From our vantage point yes. I couldn't tell you the last time I picked up a plane from mx in LAX or PBI. Call LAX an see how many QS's are in mx and then call MCO, GSO, SWF, LIT, and TOL.

You bring up some good points Capt. I agree that there is a lot of inefficiency in the system and we have a lot of work to do.

That's why I made the statement earlier in this thread that I haven't seen much improvement in cutting costs in some areas and improving efficiency. The opportunities are there, we need to start fixing it though. The increased utilization is generating profits and covering a lot of inefficiency. What concerns me is when the economy slows down again. Will we have used this time in the sun to improve the operation?

 

[higgy]

You bring up some good points Capt. I agree that there is a lot of inefficiency in the system and we have a lot of work to do.

That's why I made the statement earlier in this thread that I haven't seen much improvement in cutting costs in some areas and improving efficiency. The opportunities are there, we need to start fixing it though. The increased utilization is generating profits and covering a lot of inefficiency. What concerns me is when the economy slows down again. Will we have used this time in the sun to improve the operation?

Face it. If you havent fixed it by now your not going to. how long have you had? How long has this glouruous idea been floating around and you STILL can't make it work??? Dude if we did our job the way you do yours we WOULD be out of business and that is a fact!!! I'd like to hear you argue that. You guys had your chace and you failed. Face it it just dosent work. If i were you I would go back to the drawing board before the economy slows down.

 

[RNObased]

You bring up some good points Capt. I agree that there is a lot of inefficiency in the system and we have a lot of work to do.

That's why I made the statement earlier in this thread that I haven't seen much improvement in cutting costs in some areas and improving efficiency. The opportunities are there, we need to start fixing it though. The increased utilization is generating profits and covering a lot of inefficiency. What concerns me is when the economy slows down again. Will we have used this time in the sun to improve the operation?

And why do you think that the inefficiency hasn't been fixed???? Any idea???
Maybe because everyone has their own little castle and needs to protect it??? Or maybe the fact that no one in the company is accountable for anything except the folks actually driving the jets around??? This is the fact that chaps my a$$ no end. No one is accountable for any of their actions in CMH. I know of only one person to get the axe for doing some dumb stuff, but then again she cost the company millions.

Accountability.... Family Guy when we going to see some??????

 

[FamilyGuy]

Face it. If you havent fixed it by now your not going to. how long have you had? How long has this glouruous idea been floating around and you STILL can't make it work??? Dude if we did our job the way you do yours we WOULD be out of business and that is a fact!!! I'd like to hear you argue that. You guys had your chace and you failed. Face it it just dosent work. If i were you I would go back to the drawing board before the economy slows down.

Failed?

That's a pretty harsh assessment for a business model that's been in place for over 20 years and makes a profit.

The point you are missing is that we are talking about improvements. The basic model works, but we all see things that can be done better.

But I would like to hear why you think people have failed here in columbus.

utilization rate of the aircraft is 10% better than a year ago
maintenance availability is 10% higher than a year ago
we fly about about 800 flights per day. What percentage of the dispatches are incorrect?
We order over 1,000 meals a day, what percentage of orders are wrong?
We arrange hundreds of hotel rooms a day, what percentage are wrong?

What is your definition of failure?

 

[FLYLOW22]

How do you take that quote - aimed at people complaining about what are relatively minor issues - and extrapolate it into an attack on all pilots at NetJets?

Regardless of how you 'perceive' the 'tone' it is a valid point, one that you've already validated in your earlier posts...

Here's the evidence in case you've already forgotten how good you have it after a little over one year at NetJets...

Amazing how quickly some people forget the past...

You are SO right FamGhey.

We are so rude to not have included one person in our thanks; YOU!

Had YOU and your ilk NOT pissed us off so badly, we would not be enjoying the pay and benefits that, YES... the company provides but WE fought for.

Thanks for pissing us off.

Keep doing it. My accountant loves you too.