NetJets International Interview

[gunfyter]

I don't know. Every civilized country in the world has unions. Its what makes America great. He must be working for Aramco in the Kingdom or maybe Singapore or Indonesia.

 

[Muddauber]

What the hell kind of communist country has made unions illegal? Say hello to Fidel for me.

I think you got it backwards, gunfighter, Castro would love to give you pointers on your organized labor efforts - it's right up his alley.


"Workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains!"

Karl Marx, The Communist Manifesto.


Muddy

 

[gunfyter]

I don't have it backwards Mudman...

Every FREE country in the world has labor unions. Its part of being Free.

Only Slave states do not have labor unions.

Labor unions are the epitome of capitalism brought to the common worker. You seethe goal of Capitalists as anyone who has ever played Monopoly knows is to achieve a MONOPLY or Cartel to AVOID Price Competition.

Unions are simply cartels of labor.

Additionally, you need to remember how Communism was defeated in Europe. It was the Labor Unions and Lec Walesa in Poland. Walesa, the founder of the Solidarity movement and a key figure in the toppling of communism in Poland, was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1983. He was president of Poland from 1990 until 1995.

What propped up communist regimes? Large mutinational corporations did. These corporations love communist dictatorships because it is easier to get the cooperation of the govt to achieve Monopoly. All you have to do is know who to BRIBE.

The difference between Walesa and Castro and Marx? Walesa was a Worker... Marx and Castro were academics and were never laborers... something they have incommon with most Management types.

 

[AcroChik]

My Favorite Soviet Slogan

An actual graffito I saw on a wall in Moscow when I visited with my parents as a child:

"We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us."

As an addendum:

I've read, literally, every post on every thread about the state of affairs at NetJets. I truly empathize with everyone living through this confusing, extended, difficult situation. For the last five years, I've imagined myself eventually sitting in the right seat of some spanking new Citation, delivering people here, there, anywhere. In just one month since having signed up on this forum, I've received a lifetime's education about the challenges of our industry and trying to make one's way in it.

I'm now a little confused about what my own next career steps are to be (aside from NOT taking a NJ interview). I thank everyone for their time, their passion and their thoughts on these threads. I pray the situation improves for everyone. But I know that's not going to come before more pain. God bless.

 

[G550Driver]

I just got offered the job at NJI.



Lets just say the pay isn't as good as you all think. Actually I was shocked how low they they pay to fly a gulfstream

 

[GVFlyer]

Congratulations! It's a fine organization with great equipment. I think you will enjoy the flying and the comraderie that you will find there...and the pay gets a lot better. You may have to improve your golf game, though.



GV

 

[G550Driver]

I am excited to be offered a job.

The pay is half of what I am making now to Captain a G550 but quality of life will be much better. Plus I can live anywhere that has airport service within 1 hour.

 

[TCA]

Nji

Congrats on the job. Check your P.M.

 

[NJIG4Driver]

Congrats to G550 on the job. There are good and bads here, hope this is what you want. GV Flyer is obviously a senior G5 guy who has made money the rest of us will never see with comparable time in service. If you're taking a 50% cut in pay, understand you may never see that kind of money again in your career here, no matter how long it may be.

 

[SafetyTheSeat]

CATTAPPER



Man it must be tough working in a country ran by dictators. You better be careful you may lose an eye or something reading the web like you do.



Let me ask you a question; why do you hang out on a thread about NetJets knowing we are Unionized and then bad mouth UNIONS so much?



Why are you so hostile? You take everything so personal… What is the issue?



One more point before I go down to the store and buy some Ice Cold American Beer and some nice juicy USDA 20 oz. steaks to cook on the grill for the family.



NetJets Middle East is selling shares faster than we can provide airplanes….

It’s only a matter of time my friend, only a matter of time.

 

[SafetyTheSeat]

SafetyMan

Don't make me charge you for borrowing my Crystal Ball.

Not to worry, we are on the same wave link.



CATTAPPER



Now that’s a differ rant story-Uh?



See you in TEB for a cold one.

 

[On Your Six]

I am excited to be offered a job.

The pay is half of what I am making now to Captain a G550 but quality of life will be much better. Plus I can live anywhere that has airport service within 1 hour.

Great news. Do you have any idea whether you would go to the GIVSP or GV? That's a general question I have for NJI - are pilots cross-qualified on the two aircraft or can newhires exclusviely fly the GV? That being said, does NJI operate the G550 and do the GV pilots have to be cross-qualified on the new and old GVs?

Great job on getting to NJI.

 

[G550Driver]

Looks like I will be in the GIV. I have over 500 hours in the G550 but seniority is the thing at NJI. It'll probably take me 5 years to make Captain just on the GIV.

If you have a GV type rating, with difference training, you can fly the G450,G500,G550 and the GV classic. I know that NJI is getting G450s and G550s but I have no idea how they are going to staff and keep everyone trained to Part 135 standards on 3 different airplanes requiring one type.

Makes for a lot of fun going for your 135.293/297 check.

 

[TCA]

And the 350

Still Climbing
TCA

 

[Webslinger]

lay off the crack pipe dude!.....wake up!

 

[G4dude]

The thing about NJI that frosts us NJA guys when we think about it is simple. We were cruising along with this whole fractional thing, adding new aircraft types to the fleet and all is well. Then the Gulfstreams come along and for some reason a whole new non-union entity is created to fly these airplanes. I have heard a couple different versions of how this came to be and honestly I can say I don't know the whole truth of the matter.

But it makes us kinda mad and a little worried and it shouldn't be hard to see why. What is stop NetJets from creating another non-union branch the next time they decide to buy a new type of airplane? The answer of course is scope. Why our union allowed NJI to slip by is pretty hard to imagine.

When looking at NetJets from a historical perspective it is clear... those guys are flying our airplanes.

The reason is to avoid having union pilots. Kudos to Netjets for having the guts to create NJI.

 

[slowto250]

The reason is to avoid having union pilots. Kudos to Netjets for having the guts to create NJI.

The guts !?! More like fear. Get a clue

 

[El Chupacabra]

Kudos to ASAP for filing single carrier.

Fights On.

 

[Apeman]

So what was the big shake-up in January promised a few pages back?

 

[G4dude]

The guts !?! More like fear. Get a clue

We make more money and are happy, and are non union. You are broke and miserable, and have been union for YEARS. Now, who is clueless? With all due respect.

 

[slowto250]

We make more money and are happy, and are non union. You are broke and miserable, and have been union for YEARS. Now, who is clueless? With all due respect.

With all due respect, (not fully apprised of just how much) I am not broke and miserable. I also do not fly on your NJA side of the house, but have many friends that do. I have no real dog in this hunt, except that a pilot group this large (now that they are well represented) will have a major influence on the collective futures of all we "little airplane drivers". I have watched this drama unfold ever since their contract became amendable, with great interest. My hat is off to them for staying the course, as indirectly, all will benefit from their resolve.

And BTW, I also fly a Gulfstream, and without collective bargaining you won't see a W2 like mine during your lifetime.

Oh yeah, and one more thing.......naa naa naa naa naa.

 

[Hogprint]

We make more money and are happy, and are non union. You are broke and miserable, and have been union for YEARS. Now, who is clueless? With all due respect.

Yes, you make more $....

Yes, you probably are happier...

Yes, we are broke and miserable...

Yes, we have had union representation for years...

BUT...we now have an MEC with the stones to stand and fight and try and make things better.

And yes I am probably clueless...

 

[ditch]

A guy justs wants to offer a little gouge and it turns into the same pro union/anti union/NJA/NJI/WGAF/BS thread..... A shame



Cheers

 

[Webslinger]

The planes are operated by NetJets. Gulfstream may have financed a portion of them, I don't know. But they are OPERATED by NetJets. If the judge rules that NJI is similar enough of an operation to NJA then it doesn't matter if Santulli borrowed money from Gulfstream to finance the order. If Gulfstream dosn't like the judges ruling, they can stop selling planes to NetJets or accept the fact that the jets they sell will be flown by unionized pilots. I'm sure if there's a financing problem, Uncle Warren might be able to scratch up enough for the deposits to cover what Gulfstream may have provided.

Has is dawned on anyone, especially "Majik" that Sanutlli formed and runs this company, and that "you" the pilots were offered employment, you agreed to work for a set pay, and yet you think you have a say in how he runs his company?
I guess another way to put this is, yes we would all like to have "the perfect" flying job or contract from a union that has done nothing to date for you guys..(Im speaking from experience) But what is your union going to do "Majik" if NJI and NJA are NOT combined, and you dont get your $105K raise? Are you going to stomp you feet and cry that " its not fair, they make more than us Mommy", or are you going to go to work, and provide for your family. My point is, we all know that most aviation companines from the majors to the fractionals would put pilots into slave labor for min wages if they could, like you, I dont agree with it. But it is what it is. When you started your career along with everyone else you knew this! Remeber 911 gentlemen? There are over 10,000 furloghed airline pilots still on the street from Bullsh#t Airline managment decisions, and their "Unions" havent done crap for them! Jesus Chr#st people, wake the hell UP!!! Look at UAL and USAIR for crying out loud??? Do you think there pilots have a leg to stand on? Where is ALPA when you need them? Bottom line that nobody wants to hear because its the truth is, its you job! if you dont like it quit and go flip burgers. Ok, Im off my soapbox. I say this as a Non-union,ex-netjet and current EJM pilot that is happy to have a job. I left EJA because of the pay, I didnt cry about it, I accepted it and moved on, if you dont like it quit. By the way, you should have no problem getting a high paying flying job out there right now, I heard there are alot of companies looking? Shouldnt be to much competition either with 10,000 pilots on the street? Drop me a line and let me know how that works out for ya? Better yet, why dont you ask the Teamsters? They did such a great job for "Overnight" didnt they...nuff said...let the flaming begin.

 

[Publishers]

Originally Posted by Sctt@NJA
The thing about NJI that frosts us NJA guys when we think about it is simple. We were cruising along with this whole fractional thing, adding new aircraft types to the fleet and all is well. Then the Gulfstreams come along and for some reason a whole new non-union entity is created to fly these airplanes. I have heard a couple different versions of how this came to be and honestly I can say I don't know the whole truth of the matter.

But it makes us kinda mad and a little worried and it shouldn't be hard to see why. What is stop NetJets from creating another non-union branch the next time they decide to buy a new type of airplane? The answer of course is scope. Why our union allowed NJI to slip by is pretty hard to imagine.

When looking at NetJets from a historical perspective it is clear... those guys are flying our airplanes."


Obviously when you form a joint venture with a partner, they get to make some requirements. Gulfstream said if you want to do this, you will do this part our way. What you all have a hard time with is that these are not "your" aircraft. As a matter of fact, none of the aircraft at either company are "your aircraft". Netjets provides crew services and aircraft partnering services to owners. I believe that ultimately this is where the argument will fail in union negotiations. NJA nor NJI owns what they fly.

 

[ultrarunner]

Publishers, NJI is nothing more than an alter-ego airline. It's as simple as that.

And the reason it slipped by is because you're not being represented by a pilot union, but a union with a completely different philosophy. It's as simple as that.

 

[Some Dude]

NJI pilots are the LOWEST PAID GIV AND GV PILOTS in the country. It's great place to work if you don't mind violating the FARs on a regular basis. Putting your ATP certificate on the line everyday. Knowing that some smuck that hired on at NJI is making more bank than someone senior to him. It's just another piss poor Shamtulli company. Yeah better be one hell of a kiss ass cause that's what it takes to keep you job there. You can't say NO.

 

[ultrarunner]

BOO HOO. Looser. You don't like it? Don't do it?

I get tired of this hearing this crap!

 

[Some guy]

I'm sure if there's a financing problem, Uncle Warren might be able to scratch up enough for the deposits to cover what Gulfstream may have provided.

I don't seem to understand why many people think that Berkshire Hathaway money is NetJets money. Just because NJ is owned by BH doesn't mean that anytime the company needs money that BH should just hand it over.

"Uncle Warren" bought the company and invested more money than all of would know what to do with. NJ does have to pay that money back and are expecting yearly returns from us. (I'm not sure of the numbers)

 

[Publishers]

I believe that the simplicity of the alter ego airline may well be lost in definition when it gets to the legal stage.

It may be that those deciding the case will not think that you are an air carrier but except by a circuitious route. In fact, the recent changes made by the FAA and constant talk about Fractionals being something different may in fact hurt that position.

While I do not have all the answers to this question, what I am sure of is that it will be a prolonged procedure, in the end you might look back and wonder if it was really worth it, and, was this all necessary.

Another small factor would be proving that EJI was created to be an alter ego airline offering less wages to undercut you since that does not seem to be the case. Secondly because it is equally obvious that Gulfstream themselves may have made the rules up regarding this entiity, flown under Netjets or not, the tact of it being a labor deal does not make sense.

If you understand labor union mentality, the argument that this slipped by makes no sense when they are attracted to the higher pay.I suspect that is why it was not addressed before.