NetJets International Interview

[GVFlyer]

I always laugh when people say "you don't need a union at my company." "Mgmt treats us right." These idiots think that the same mgmt. team will be there for their entire career. What happen when a new team comes in and cuts your pay or job? You get screwed.

We don't need a union at my company. We are management and qualify for management incentives as do the test pilots at Boeing.

NJI pilots are the LOWEST PAID G4 G5 pilots in the country.

That is simply not true. New hires are compensated at 50% percentile NBAA. Senior Captains do considerably better. I'm not going to tell you how much better because I suspect that you are simply fishing for information and I do not want to fuel the fires of controversy here.

GV

 

[h25b]

We don't need a union at my company. We are management and qualify for management incentives as do the test pilots at Boeing.



That is simply not true. New hires are compensated at 50% percentile NBAA. Senior Captains do considerably better. I'm not going to tell you how much better because I suspect that you are simply fishing for information and I do not want to fuel the fires of controversy here.

GV

Oh boy G-VFlyer... Now that you directly contradicted them with cold, hard fact they are sure to tell you to crawl back under some rock or resort to some other schoolyard insult.

 

[Hogprint]

Is it too much to ask that NJA new hires be paid in the 50 percentile? Is it asking too much that our senior captains do considerably better?

After all is said and done, that is the crux of the problem. They are not and we are trying to attain that goal.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Is it too much to ask that NJA new hires be paid in the 50 percentile? Is it asking too much that our senior captains do considerably better?

After all is said and done, that is the crux of the problem. They are not and we are trying to attain that goal.

Perhaps the UNION is the crux of the problem and the reason you are not 50%- I think that is the point.

 

[h25b]

Is it too much to ask that NJA new hires be paid in the 50 percentile? Is it asking too much that our senior captains do considerably better?

After all is said and done, that is the crux of the problem. They are not and we are trying to attain that goal.

Great goal... Not at all unreasonable. It's how some of you guys are deciding to get to that point that's the problem. The other debate is whether having a union on the property has been a help or hinderance during that process.

 

[Hogprint]

Perhaps the UNION is the crux of the problem and the reason you are not 50%- I think that is the point.

Were the pilots in the 50 percentile pre-union? I doubt it. Maybe prior MECs were outclassed/outsmarted/outnegotiated by the company? Whos fault is that? Ours, thats whose.

That is why we are working to change things. I only hope we have your support Dsptchr.

 

[Hogprint]

h25b,

I guess we could debate the finer points of Union/non union till we're blue in the face. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I'm playing with the hand I was dealt.

I know what your alluding to when you say we are going about it the wrong way. I think your concerns in that matter have been dealt with and hopefully we can proceed on a new tack.

 

[h25b]

h25b,

I guess we could debate the finer points of Union/non union till we're blue in the face. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I'm playing with the hand I was dealt.

I know what your alluding to when you say we are going about it the wrong way. I think your concerns in that matter have been dealt with and hopefully we can proceed on a new tack.

I think you're correct, but still the vocal idiots of the union still carry on... That's one of the problems of a group process such as collective bargaining. You all get judged as the group. There's no doubt the majority of you guys are great individuals, see them every day. But you also get to see the few around that I can just picture as the "Starman" populous.. So what the MEC needs to do is make its policies well known (i.e. Website) AND professionally solicite the support of industry pilots. NONE of us would ever think twice about flying a sell-off so it's stupid to even let that rumor fly around. It just stirs the pot. I don't have any idea what kind of helpful support you could get by all of us, but it would at least be nice to garner maybe the occasional "keep your head up!" from us guys on the road.

I believe that the scab list thing was just rantings of a select few idiots that are too stupid to see the big picture and probably always will be, which is why they probably DO believe that a union is the only way to go. Because they wouldn't last 2 days outside of one.

But this is exactly where your leadership needs to be the cooler hands and see its responsibility to clear up any misinformation. Especially when its making the membership as a whole look horrible to other industry "professionals". I can tell you for fact that there's been a ton of damage already done by this.

 

[x402]

But this is exactly where your leadership needs to be the cooler hands and see its responsibility to clear up any misinformation. Especially when its making the membership as a whole look horrible to other industry "professionals". I can tell you for fact that there's been a ton of damage already done by this.

I think you are giving this board too muck credit. Most pilots don't read it and if they do, understand the ramblings of the few.

 

[h25b]

But this is exactly where your leadership needs to be the cooler hands and see its responsibility to clear up any misinformation. Especially when its making the membership as a whole look horrible to other industry "professionals". I can tell you for fact that there's been a ton of damage already done by this.

I think you are giving this board too muck credit. Most pilots don't read it and if they do, understand the ramblings of the few.

I don't think I ever said that I had had ANY expectations... Just making suggestions. This is after all, a discussion board...

I think you'd be surprised how many AND who reads this board... At least for entertainment purposes...

 

[dsptchrnja]

Were the pilots in the 50 percentile pre-union?

Irrelevent. You are negotiating with today's leadership, not yesterday's.

I only hope we have your support Dsptchr.

You certainly have my support for a raise. There is a proposal on the table for a 23%-40% increase in pay - I support you voting yes and get this thing over with.

 

[El Chupacabra]

There is a proposal on the table for a 23%-40% increase in pay - I support you voting yes and get this thing over with.

That won't happen. There won't even be a vote.... The proposal is DOA.

 

[dsptchrnja]

That won't happen. There won't even be a vote.... The proposal is DOA.

Unfortunate. Then I guess it is time for the nay-sayers to move on. It's hard to believe you're going to see much better than that.

 

[smartestwife]

dispatcher

There is nothing to vote on. The union has to approve and present to the members to begin with. There is more to it than just the salary money-

 

[Hogprint]

Irrelevent. You are negotiating with today's leadership, not yesterday's.

Ok dsptchr, using that logic then judge us on what we are doing under this leadership. Good, bad or indifferent. Most of the anti-union screed on this board sites examples under former leadership (with the exception of a couple).

What you are witnessing now is a union with some moxie. It is glaringly obvious when you sit back and compare the two. Believe me, we want this over also.




On another note....h25b,

Most of the corporate guys I have talked to on the road have been very supportive of our efforts. If any were not, then they didn't let on about it. I have gone out of my way over the last few months to get a feel for how this situation is perceived out in the FBOs. I always thought of this as an in-house issue, but lots of folks are paying attention.

Thanks for the "keep your heads up" it has meant a lot to many of us. To all who support our efforts a heart felt thank you.

 

[AA717driver]

I don't know of too many people who aren't supportive of NJA getting a much improved contract.

My criticisim all along has centered on the drive to force NJI into the union and the ill-advised labelling of 135 pilots as SCABS.

Some of my other comments about trusting your union too much or expecting too much from the process come from my personal experience and is offered so you don't go through the disillusionment and anger I experienced.TC

 

[bertengineer]

NJA Teamsters

It's a sorry bunch of pilots who try to better their own positions at the cost of other pilots. They're only your brothers if they pay dues to the Teamsters local, right? Calling guys in 135 companies that are only doing their job SCABs and trying to steal what the NJI pilots have worked hard to get is beneath contempt, as is trying to intimidate the pilots at NJA into towing the union line. It's all just typical union thuggery.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Ok dsptchr, using that logic then judge us on what we are doing under this leadership. Good, bad or indifferent.

Fair enough. Let's see... as a direct result under your new leadership would you say you are happier, contented, more satisfied, than the non-union NJI/EJM? Paid as well? QOL same or better? The only difference I see between this leadership and the last is higher hopes. If those hopes materialize than you will have the right to say "I told you so". To be fair I guess we'll have to give it another year. Two... Three? If this union leadership doesn't come through are you going to be willing to start seeing the union as part of the problem?

 

[Live4flyng]

Fair enough. Let's see... as a direct result under your new leadership would you say you are happier, contented, more satisfied, than the non-union NJI/EJM? Paid as well? QOL same or better? The only difference I see between this leadership and the last is higher hopes. If those hopes materialize than you will have the right to say "I told you so". To be fair I guess we'll have to give it another year. Two... Three? If this union leadership doesn't come through are you going to be willing to start seeing the union as part of the problem?

You better hope it doesn't take three more years. At this pace, the company won't be in business.

 

[Live4flyng]

It's a sorry bunch of pilots who try to better their own positions at the cost of other pilots. They're only your brothers if they pay dues to the Teamsters local, right? Calling guys in 135 companies that are only doing their job SCABs and trying to steal what the NJI pilots have worked hard to get is beneath contempt, as is trying to intimidate the pilots at NJA into towing the union line. It's all just typical union thuggery.

Hey Junior, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Hogprint]

Fair enough. Let's see... as a direct result under your new leadership would you say you are happier, contented, more satisfied, than the non-union NJI/EJM? Paid as well? QOL same or better? The only difference I see between this leadership and the last is higher hopes. If those hopes materialize than you will have the right to say "I told you so". To be fair I guess we'll have to give it another year. Two... Three? If this union leadership doesn't come through are you going to be willing to start seeing the union as part of the problem?

New Leadership: I'm Happier with their leadership. Compared to NJI QOL we don't measure up. Pay compared to NJI is not as well. You know this.

If higher hopes is the only thing you see, I would say step and look again. This pilot group has rallied behind the new MEC in large part because we see results and have been included in the process.

I will never gloat and say "I told you so". I will just be relieved that it worked and the process is over.

Since this is my first union, I will reserve judgement till I've been through a whole negotiating cycle.

 

[AA717driver]

Hey Junior, you have no idea what you are talking about.

No, junior, I'd say bertengineer has a pretty good grip.TC

 

[Live4flyng]

No, junior, I'd say bertengineer has a pretty good grip.TC

Really? So you think NJA pilots are a sorry bunch of thiefs and thugs? How can NJA pilots possibly "intimidate" the pilots at NJA into "towing the union line"? It is a condition of pilot employment at NJA.

Your hardon for NJA pilots is getting a little old TC.

 

[AA717driver]

Live4flying--The only "hardon" I have is for people being condescending to others. Just because someone has less time than you, their opinion still matters.

I've made it clear which things I take issue with in this discussion. I've also made it clear that I wholeheartedly support NJA getting a decent contract.TC

 

[Live4flyng]

Live4flying--The only "hardon" I have is for people being condescending to others. Just because someone has less time than you, their opinion still matters.

I've made it clear which things I take issue with in this discussion. I've also made it clear that I wholeheartedly support NJA getting a decent contract.TC

And I made it perfectly clear he had no idea what he was talking about when he named NJA pilots thiefs, thugs etc. You had to chime in and agree with him. I guess you should have a hardon for your own condescending attitude. Are you sure you "wholeheartedly" support NJA pilots? It is difficult for me to deduce that from your comments.

 

[Schrode]

You certainly have my support for a raise. There is a proposal on the table for a 23%-40% increase in pay - I support you voting yes and get this thing over with.

Have you seen this proposal? All the details? What is the National average cost of living increased since 1998 (when our last contract was ratified)? This proposal you speak so highly of is greatly flawed in many aspects - don't even think you as a dispatcher (and future management) would agree to the terms outlined there - and you get to go home to your family every night and live in a location where the cost of living is much cheaper than where I live. Cost of a home here has increased 150% since the last contract - rents are sure to follow soon. So for me, the proposal falls very short. Go tell the Management at NetJets I (not the Union MEC) said, "TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE!"

 

[ultrarunner]

Have you seen this proposal? All the details? What is the National average cost of living increased since 1998 (when our last contract was ratified)? This proposal you speak so highly of is greatly flawed in many aspects - don't even think you as a dispatcher (and future management) would agree to the terms outlined there - and you get to go home to your family every night and live in a location where the cost of living is much cheaper than where I live. Cost of a home here has increased 150% since the last contract - rents are sure to follow soon. So for me, the proposal falls very short. Go tell the Management at NetJets I (not the Union MEC) said, "TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE!"

Hey Schrode, I'd be careful if you're bargaining for CPI/COLA increases. I'm not going to do your homework for you, but quickly, COLA is tied to the CPI, and if you visit the CPI website, you will see that since 1998 CPI has averaged about 1.45%. The latest increase was 2.7.

Read up a bit, and you'll be quite surprised.

 

[Schrode]

Thanks - I will read up. Just I wish we did have an annual COLA increase written into the last contract - if we did, my pay would have been 20% higher than it is right now. I am not saying I want to tie my contract to the Cost of Living increase - just that this is "ground zero" for where my increase for the future contract should be based. My point is that the proposal NetJets offered the MEC (that some think is so great) didn't even cover the cost of living increase since the last contract. Are some so blind that they cannot see simple numbers like this? How does a new contract that provides less quality of life to me than the one offered in 1998 to those pilots have any merit what-so-ever?

 

[SeaSpray]

Hey Junior, you have no idea what you are talking about.

It seems to me bertengineer has a pretty good handle on the situation. Most everybody wants you guys to get a competitive wage, but nobody wants you to do it on the backs of other pilots. Threatening to put Part 135 Charter pilots on a scab list for doing their job is pretty scummy behavior. They'd be scabs if they crossed your picket line to fly QS tails, short of that, leave them alone. The abject jealousy some of you show when criticizing NJI is pretty contemptible. It just seems to eat you guys up that NJI, without a union, was able to negotiate a better deal than you and the Teamsters could. You should leave them alone as well to enjoy the pay and QOL they worked hard to earn rather than try to steal what you couldn't earn for yourself through some kind of legal shenanigans.

 

[Live4flyng]

It seems to me bertengineer has a pretty good handle on the situation. Most everybody wants you guys to get a competitive wage, but nobody wants you to do it on the backs of other pilots. Threatening to put Part 135 Charter pilots on a scab list for doing their job is pretty scummy behavior. They'd be scabs if they crossed your picket line to fly QS tails, short of that, leave them alone. The abject jealousy some of you show when criticizing NJI is pretty contemptible. It just seems to eat you guys up that NJI, without a union, was able to negotiate a better deal than you and the Teamsters could. You should leave them alone as well to enjoy the pay and QOL they worked hard to earn rather than try to steal what you couldn't earn for yourself through some kind of legal shenanigans.

It's obvious you aren't clear on the history of EJA/NJA and the formation of EJI/NJI either. Don't believe everything you read on this website Mr.Spray. Could you please explain what NJA pilots are trying to "steal"? I'm curious about the "shenanigans" too.