Netjets Gulfstreams & Globals - Coexisting?

[jtf]

The company gets to decide what airplanes to offer to the pilots who are being displaced. They bid and get awarded in seniority order, but only among those being displaced that were offered that specific bid. Most likely the FOs who were hired by NJI will be displaced to the right seat in the Globals, even though their company wide seniority wouldn't hold it and the company has said that they will only use company wide seniority order. The company tells a lot of lies and has a history of protecting the NJI pilots (especially with two of the higher management positions filled by former NJI pilots). Everyone already in the Gulfstream has their seat protected as long as the airplane they are on is not displaced. The G-IVs have already started to get sold so unless the pilots on it get a bid into the G-V before the IVs are gone, they will be at the mercy of the company to offer the Globals to those getting displaced- they might get it, they might not.

 

[FLYLOW22]

You had better read about "Displacement bids" in our contract. VSL has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is sad that you don't know this.

Oh, I know about displacement language.

I also know what happens when language like this is used improperly.

It is what it is.

 

[X-rated]

Oh, I know about displacement language.

I also know what happens when language like this is used improperly.

It is what it is.

Not taking sides, but can you explain why allowing a G-IV FO to displace into a Global 5000 would be considered using the displacement language improperly if his GIV is replaced by the Global? Am I missing something here?

 

[gunfyter]

Thats easy. The Global will pay more than most other fleets. Therefore should be bid by Seniority.

Displacements should then be directed to the vacancies created by those who bid by seniority into the Global.

 

[X-rated]

Thats easy. The Global will pay more than most other fleets. Therefore should be bid by Seniority.

So, you're saying the G-IV guy should take a pay cut because his airplane is replaced with a new one? Not sure I agree with that one.

 

[X-rated]

Displacements should then be directed to the vacancies created by those who bid by seniority into the Global.

Again, maybe I'm missing something. That sounds like plane old bidding not displacement bidding. I understand if you don't agree there should be a displacement bid, but if the language is in the contract, it seems this is the ideal situation to use it.

 

[gunfyter]

Actually, no pay cut is involved ... since larger aircraft pay the same as the all other aircraft until Year 15. But those of us senior in aircraft lighter than 40K, presently have our pay capped.

 

[Pervis]

From an unamed (here anyways) senior management type, the plan is to open the Global bids to the entire seniorty list. That's how it should work for any new aircraft, and I would imagine that will be one area in the CBA that will be clarified when section 6 bargaining resumes. As Gunfighter mentioned, no pay cut is involved for FOs, and seniority means more than paying higher dues.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The company gets to decide what airplanes to offer to the pilots who are being displaced. They bid and get awarded in seniority order, but only among those being displaced that were offered that specific bid. Most likely the FOs who were hired by NJI will be displaced to the right seat in the Globals, even though their company wide seniority wouldn't hold it and the company has said that they will only use company wide seniority order. The company tells a lot of lies and has a history of protecting the NJI pilots (especially with two of the higher management positions filled by former NJI pilots). Everyone already in the Gulfstream has their seat protected as long as the airplane they are on is not displaced. The G-IVs have already started to get sold so unless the pilots on it get a bid into the G-V before the IVs are gone, they will be at the mercy of the company to offer the Globals to those getting displaced- they might get it, they might not.

As of last month, there are 33 "crossover" G-IV PIC's and 86 NJI-hired G-IV PIC's.

There are exactly FOUR NJI-hired F/O's left in the G-IV, one of whom is in the top 800 of the seniority list. There are 15 "crossover" F/O's in the GIV.

Therefore, IF the company elected to put the GIV into disposal just prior to delivery of the Globals and displace GIV pilots into that fleet, the bulk of the positions would be awarded to NJA pilots that had enough seniority in the first place to hold the Gulfstream bid.

How the company elects to do it is anybody's guess. And frankly, I don't care. And judging by what I'm hearing from the classrooms in Savannah, I wouldn't want to be in the training department on the Gulfstream OR the Global.

 

[fob727]

How the company elects to do it is anybody's guess. And frankly, I don't care. And judging by what I'm hearing from the classrooms in Savannah, I wouldn't want to be in the training department on the Gulfstream OR the Global

Are you saying you've got some dummies that will be heading to school?

 

[gutshotdraw]

I'm saying there are lots of blank stares when the terms like "ETP", "QFE", and "metric conversions" come up.

 

[Dirty Dingus]

Global's

:laugh: Yeah, and wait to see what that stare turns into when they go to the Global's with a (little bit) of IOE training and they're dispatched to China or places as such. I'm glad I don't have to set next to a Senior NJA pilot (capt or F.O.) that get's the bid!!!!!

 

[7on7Off]

:laugh: Yeah, and wait to see what that stare turns into when they go to the Global's with a (little bit) of IOE training and they're dispatched to China or places as such. I'm glad I don't have to set next to a Senior NJA pilot (capt or F.O.) that get's the bid!!!!!

You make it sound sooooo hard, or is your training department really that bad?

 

[gutshotdraw]

You make it sound sooooo hard, or is your training department really that bad?

Well, it has been dismantled of late.

The problem is people showing up expecting to be spoon fed every morsel of information they will need. You want to bid the long range equipment? Great. Crack a friggin book.

 

[jppt2000]

I'm saying there are lots of blank stares when the terms like "ETP", "QFE", and "metric conversions" come up.

Oh boy,
here it comes again, tired of the union boards so soon?

 

[Dirty Dingus]

You make it sound sooooo hard, or is your training department really that bad?

Give it a try yourself, (with no Int'l experience) and let me know how it works out for ya. There's always someone that thinks they can just jump out there and fly Globals or Gulfstreams anywhere in the world. The training at NJ is very good, and the majority of NJ pilots are TOP notch, but it takes time to learn. There's more to being a capt than flying, this AIN'T no airline, ie: go thru the door, turn left and sit down.

 

[gunfyter]

Give it a try yourself, (with no Int'l experience) and let me know how it works out for ya. There's always someone that thinks they can just jump out there and fly Globals or Gulfstreams anywhere in the world. The training at NJ is very good, and the majority of NJ pilots are TOP notch, but it takes time to learn. There's more to being a capt than flying, this AIN'T no airline, ie: go thru the door, turn left and sit down.

Who has no international experience?

 

[jppt2000]

Give it a try yourself, (with no Int'l experience) and let me know how it works out for ya. There's always someone that thinks they can just jump out there and fly Globals or Gulfstreams anywhere in the world. The training at NJ is very good, and the majority of NJ pilots are TOP notch, but it takes time to learn. There's more to being a capt than flying, this AIN'T no airline, ie: go thru the door, turn left and sit down.

Wow,
Thanks for the edukashun.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Who has no international experience?

At a guess, two Beechjet F/O's, two Excel Captains, an Excel F/O and a partidge in a pear tree. The Hawker Captain probably has a little.

 

[jonjuan]

And just like all those MD-80 FOs who showed up in 2003, the news guys will also learn the ropes.