Netjets Casino employees

[dsptchrnja]

Shows your true feelings.

Feelings have nothing to do with it. It is an observation.

Just goes to show you still don't understand about what happened in negotiations. Nobody walked away from anything.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, you must have read the post too fast - the comment had nothing to do with negotiations, you need to read it again to figure out who we are talking about.

Here's a question if you're such a long term employee did you feel the same way about the mechanics strike? Or did you just not tell them because you had to see them everyday?

You apparently don't know my job very well. I see and talk to pilots everyday. The only time I see a Mx guy is walking by the smoke shack on my way into work. But I'll entertain your question anyway.

I had no feelings towards the MX strike - I don't even remember that it affected the company the same way. If you remember there were no mechs threatening to close down the company if they didn't get their way or passing out propaganda at company meetings. It simply wasn't a concern to the average flight center employee. I was relatively new then and was just trying to figure out my job. I'm sure if I knew a mech I would have wished him or her success in getting more pay assuming they were underpaid, just like I support you guys. But I probably wouldn't have taken it too well if he called me names or threatened my job security verbally. Don't know, it didn't happen that way. It's comparing apples to oranges.

 

[abenaki]

Dispatcher--

First, thanks for your reasonable response to my posts. My apologies for missing your point about "sticking to flying jets".....sometimes the written word is less than clear in meaning and how we "say it in our heads" is not always how someone "hears it when they read it".

Just a couple of points:

You said, "The real issue is how much, and to what destructive end you are willing to go to get it".

There is no desire on the part of the union to do anything destructive to you, any employeee of NJA or the company. What I'm not sure that you understand is that the provisions of the RLA FORCE a union to take it to a strike if a company becomes entrenched in negotiations because there is NO OTHER COURSE OF ACTION to be taken under the those provisions.

It's that simple. Belive me, having been through a strike, I have no desire to stomach another, but if there was a way to get the company to offer us an agreement that wasn't REGRESSIVE as the last two have been, then I would be all for it. Unfortunately, there isn't.

You place ALL the responsibility on the union. How about the company? They can easily avert a strike by offering us what they ALREADY give to other parts of the company.....i.e. Fly from home, 7/7 schedules across the board, pay that is at least REASONABLY commensurate with the rest of the industry instead of about half of what others make. Recently, there was a job posting for a position at EJM offering just those things but somehow, they don't want to offer them to us. If they did, this thing could be over in less than a week.

"Unions aren't needed at Netjets. The union is only a threat to the comany's welfar - and possibly your career. They were meant for a time when workers needed to be protected from unhealthy workplaces and irresponsible employers. Seriously, what have they done for you other than Pi$$ off RTS?"

OK, this is a matter of opinion. The union is NOT a threat to the welfare of NJA. How is this possible? Because we want what others already have at this company? Frankly, without the efforts of the union, NJA WOULD be more unhealthy than it already is. The safety initiatives put forth by the safety committee are proof of that. 14 hour days have been proven to be UNSAFE yet NJA continues the practice each and every day offering a "solution" that if get two 14 hour days in a row, you get a whopping 12 hours the next night. This flies in the face of the studies on sleep/rest and crew fatigue done by NASA and the accident findings published by the FAA. As the joke here goes, "Safety is Number 1 at Net Jets unless it interferes with scheduling".

So, we are not supposed to tick off RTS? Are you aware of the seat-lock/gateway fisaco where RTS found a loophole in the agreement the company NEEDED where he could and did renig on his part of the deal? His actions during that whole thing did massive irreparable damage to the trust between the parties.

RTS has more money than he could ever spend. And good for him. I have no issue with that. But you have to ask yourself with all that money, why does he continue to work when he could sit his "Celine House" ($20,000,000, BTW) and enjoy life? Because it's a game to him. And we are pawns to be used, manipulated and sacrificed if it furthers his ends.

"So far, your union is seeing to it that they are the ones that can't have good-faith negotiations and I doubt the mediator is impressed."

How do you know this? What facts do you have to back this up? Are you party to the negotiations? Are you aware of the completely regressive contract proposals the company has put forth? Would YOU like to take a decrease in YOUR pay and benefits because Net Jets is crying "poor" while they purchase hangars, establish other areas of operation and charge YOUR portion of the company outrageous sums for a quart of oil?

The last proposal put forth was nothing short of a slap in the face to every pilot at this company and you're telling me that the union is not bargaining in good faith? We've worked at this process for years and years with the company openly ADMITTING that they have intentionally delayed the process. The longer they delay, the more money they save. It's very simple. You can discount what is going on and say that is neither here nor there for you, but the facts remain.


"Waiting and worrying about the next fat check is making you guys miserable".....

Come on, Dispatcher...we've been waiting for YEARS. The value of our checks has DECREASED since the last agreement was signed so many years ago....Adjusted for inflation, this group is making FAR less than it did when the last CBA was signed. Yet, at the same time, NJA has increased the monthly management fees by 3.75% a year all the while telling the owners that was going towards the "pilots pay" when in reality, we haven't seen a nickle of it.

We have the right to be frsutrated.

By the way. Are you familiar with the pay tables? Are you aware that many of our first year pilots qualify for FOOD STAMPS? Why wouldn't we be frustrated when we see monies wasted each and every day?

more later.

 

[Lrjet55]

Why do we spend so much time trying to explain our side of the story to a dispatcher. Its clear this individual does not see issues as we do and never will. I personaly would encourage all you to focus your efforts elsewhere. Funny enough prior to SU requesting we not have individual discussions with management about 10 of us had a discussion with Boisture in Dallas where we explained what dispatch did do as opposed to what they should do and his comment was if that was the case then the company should reconsider having dispatch at all.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[abenaki]

Lrjet55--Actually, a very good question....

For me, it involves trying to offer other perceptions than that which the company is feeding the employess at the Casino.

Dispatcher characterized some of what the union put out as "propaganda" but I don't remember him acknowledging that what the company is putting out as propaganda itself. Somehow, what management puts out is perceived as the one and only truth by many, and what 2000 pilots put out is perceived as "propaganda". He and others perceive the union as somewhat less than scrupulous when that union is actually you, me and a about 2000 other people. The union is US. They don't seem to grasp that.

I would, in a reasonable manner, like to offer some facts that may at least lead to some questioning in the mind of Dispatcher and others that maybe, just maybe, the only thing the company cares about is money and that will employ any and all tactics to further that sole issue.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Dispatcher--
>>>
There is no desire on the part of the union to do anything destructive to you, any employeee of NJA or the company. What I'm not sure that you understand is that the provisions of the RLA FORCE a union to take it to a strike if a company becomes entrenched in negotiations because there is NO OTHER COURSE OF ACTION to be taken under the those provisions.

I believe you, I do. But don't expect me to like it, just as you don't like it (for different reasons of course). And I will never understand how you can come to the point where there is no other course of action. Even if you have to settle for what they are offering for the sake of your families seems to be a better course of action to me than going on strike in the slim hope that that will convince the company to actually give in. I have yet to hear a crewmember say they think that will actually work - so it appears to be punitive, rather than hopeful.

You place ALL the responsibility on the union. How about the company? They can easily avert a strike by offering us what they ALREADY give to other parts of the company.....i.e. Fly from home, 7/7 schedules across the board, pay that is at least REASONABLY commensurate with the rest of the industry instead of about half of what others make. Recently, there was a job posting for a position at EJM offering just those things but somehow, they don't want to offer them to us. If they did, this thing could be over in less than a week.

You are making my point that the union may be the problem - considering that's the only difference. If there was no union perhaps you would get paid along the same lines as EJM, NJI.

OK, as a reasonable person, I can see that even if that was the case, it shouldn't matter to the company and should pay you along those same lines anyway. But if that's the game they are playing (taking advantage of bargaining employees), wrong or not, my point is the same - get rid of the union and things might get better. Again, this is pure speculation. And I don't realistically expect that you would venture down that road to find out. But who knows what twists and turns are going to happen over the next year? I personally wouldn't be surprised if we find out somehow - what I do believe - is that you wouldn't be any worse off - that's for sure.

This flies in the face of the studies on sleep/rest and crew fatigue done by NASA and the accident findings published by the FAA. As the joke here goes, "Safety is Number 1 at Net Jets unless it interferes with scheduling".

Funny, and understandable. But you know as well as I it is your responsibility to say when your too tired. In my seven years here I have yet to see one pilot denied, or even criticized because he was too fatigued to finish his line. In my book, I respect you more because I know you know your limits. That's what safety is all about.

RTS has more money than he could ever spend. And good for him. I have no issue with that. But you have to ask yourself with all that money, why does he continue to work when he could sit his "Celine House" ($20,000,000, BTW) and enjoy life? Because it's a game to him. And we are pawns to be used, manipulated and sacrificed if it furthers his ends.

If your statement is true, than RTS would have to agree with you. Doubtful. And not even remotely persuasive to me when you judge the motives of someone you probably have never spoken to on the issue.

How do you know this? What facts do you have to back this up? Are you party to the negotiations? Are you aware of the completely regressive contract proposals the company has put forth? Would YOU like to take a decrease in YOUR pay and benefits because Net Jets is crying "poor" while they purchase hangars, establish other areas of operation and charge YOUR portion of the company outrageous sums for a quart of oil?

Again, not the issue (with me) for reasons I've stated here and in other posts.

The last proposal put forth was nothing short of a slap in the face to every pilot at this company and you're telling me that the union is not bargaining in good faith? We've worked at this process for years and years with the company openly ADMITTING that they have intentionally delayed the process.

Quote please...

Come on, Dispatcher...we've been waiting for YEARS. The value of our checks has DECREASED since the last agreement was signed so many years ago....Adjusted for inflation, this group is making FAR less than it did when the last CBA was signed. Yet, at the same time, NJA has increased the monthly management fees by 3.75% a year all the while telling the owners that was going towards the "pilots pay" when in reality, we haven't seen a nickle of it.

We have the right to be frsutrated.

You are still making this an issue with me yet I have said repeatedly I would like to see the company increase your pay. I understand your frustration.

By the way. Are you familiar with the pay tables? Are you aware that many of our first year pilots qualify for FOOD STAMPS?

You are talking to someone who started at this company making 27K. I made 18K in the military before that. By looking at your pay tables I have no hope of making what you guys make long term under the current contract. So why do guys keep bringing this up to me as if you were the last poor people on mother earth? Even at 35K, you are among the top 5% most wealthy people on the planet. So comparisons are only a matter of who you want to be compared to. People making double your pay are discontented and sometimes miserable because they compare themselves to people making twice their pay. Studies show that once all your basic needs are met, food, shelter, clothing, substancial increase in incomes do not yield increases in happiness. In fact it has been shown that lottery winners are not only no more happy 1-2 years later after they get paid, but in most cases, less happy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make the point here that you should just bend over and take whatever it is they offer, like the rest of us non-bargaining folk. Just fodder for the discussion. However, life with contentment is great gain.

Stay safe

 

[Starman]

These guys are no more dispatchers for netjets than I am Pope. They are here to spread doubt and fear among the pilots. They are here to stir the pot and create anger between different employee groups. Forget about them - they aren't worth your time.

Take the time to read Confessions of a Union Buster and you'll start to see right through all the trash being posted by dsptchrNJA, FAcFriend, I-R-DXR, NJACrewservicer, casino wife, and others. Anonymous posts on this board are a perfect way for one or two people contracted by NJA to sew the seeds of doubt. Recognize them for what they are and move on.

 

[dsptchrnja]

These guys are no more dispatchers for netjets than I am Pope. They are here to spread doubt and fear among the pilots. They are here to stir the pot and create anger between different employee groups. Forget about them - they aren't worth your time.

Take the time to read Confessions of a Union Buster and you'll start to see right through all the trash being posted by dsptchrNJA, FAcFriend, I-R-DXR, NJACrewservicer, casino wife, and others. Anonymous posts on this board are a perfect way for one or two people contracted by NJA to sew the seeds of doubt. Recognize them for what they are and move on.

Pope, let me guess... you don't believe the U.S. ever landed on the moon, do you?

If you can't handle debating the real issues of NJA and its pilots than you should probably stay off the public boards.

 

[Fracster]

dsptchrnja


I can name over 50 people in the past 2 years who have been disciplined for calling in tired. Once again your company proganda is blinding you.

You say you haven't seen anyone being brought in? That is because you are at your work station and do not see what goes on behind the scenes. Just recently there was a X ACP, PM or what ever they are called who was keeping a list of pilots who were calling in tired.
He was forced by Hart to remove the list and we are awaiting discpline.

I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt but come on man, think about some of the stuff you post.
The fact that we are union, since 1964 which means we had nothing to do with it, should not make any difference in our pay. Why would you even think otherwise.

You say we shouldn't go on strike because we should be happy with what the company offers and for the sake of our families?
We are using a strike as an option for that very reason. We are doing all this work for our families. We are asking for higher wages so we can send our kids to better schools and colleges, so our wife/husbands can stay home if he/she chooses to raise the children, so we can afford to live in a better neighborhoods with better schools.
You say I should just accept what NJA is offering for my families sake? Your a fooking idiot!
We dont want to go on strike. We dont want to be without a pay check. We dont want to cause irreperable damage to NJA(well the union doesnt, I don't care). NJA pays all is subsidiaries more money than us but because we have a union we aren't worth as much. I have never heard such an over inflated argument.

I cannot fault you for championing mediocracy. You cannot be expected to comprehend the plight of those striving for a better life and career. We provide a service, and a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good one at that, and we are clearly not appreciated. We make the same or less than a regional airline pilot. You make more that most of the pilots. Do you think you are worth more than most of the pilots? I dont think so and I can guarantee 2000 other pilots feel the same way.

The Local 284 was corrupt and stems back to Dave Vermuelen and his cronies. The current corporate culture does not want to change. The union changed and wants the company to do the same. I guarantee it will.

 

[ghostrider64]

DispatcherNJA....

Your arrogance is unbelievable....You say flying Jets is all we are needed for....

I'll let you in on a little secret that is obviously long lost in the casino...Before YOU had a job and while the question of, if EXECUTIVE JET AVIATION was going to succeed or not...We the pilots did everything you do today...The only difference is we did it in some little FBO in the middle of no where...then we made sure that everything including the catering was correct...then when it wasn't we ordered borrowed cars etc...to get the right stuff....We the pilots have done everything you dispatchers are doing now...And the kicker is most of us Pilots have been doing it since you were in kindergarden....

So please look at yourself in the mirror and realize the reason YOU have a job is because we pilots did everything you are doing today at a time when EXECUTIVE JET AVIATION could not afford to pay for dispatchers....

So do your job....Lose the sarcasm when we call in to ask for a rerelease and respect the FACT that these pilots who as you say are only needed to fly...while you head home and hug your kids and sleep with your SO...have and can do EVERYTHING you have done and more all while we miss BDays, anniversaries, weddings and unfortunately we don't seem to miss out on the divorces...

Maybe you should respect what we have given up for you to have a JOB and appreciate that a bit more....

 

[Fracster]

Like I said, dispatch at NJA is a waste of time and money. They do very little that helps the pilot group and Boisture agrees.

 

[FAcFriend]

ghost- I appreciate your hostility and openness.

First- "EJA started at a very bad time in aviation if you were a pilot. You were extremely lucky to have a jet job. The only way to get hired was if you knew someone, worked for free, or if you paid for your own training. The pay was absolutely horrible but you were happy to just be flying" This is a quote from one your union guys.

So the guys who came early - came for the same reason guys came late- to have a job doing what they love- flying planes.

Fractional business was built on a model that had low pilot wages because pilot wages were low- too many pilots not enough jobs-

Mngt wants to resolve this issue as well as the union does. this is why mngt paid your MEC chair to attend the negotiation meetings. Taking him off the line to be a part of your negotiation team is not part of your contract (as was stated here previously) but part of the TA that was voted down.

Remember guys, this is a 3 year contract- last year you could have pocketed signing bonuses, pay raises AND started planning strategy for your next contract, so next time it doesnt take so long. All without mentioning scabs, strikes etc.

At this rate it will take at least one if not two years from the date of the voted down TA, to either strike or resolve.

 

[transpac]

dsptchrnja


I can name over 50 people in the past 2 years who have been disciplined for calling in tired. Once again your company proganda is blinding you.

Don't forget the guy who was fired. (And reinstated, thanks to the union).

 

[abenaki]

Fac Friend--

The TA last year contained "raises" that did not even equal adjustments for inflation over the last contract. It was a regressive offer that the company would have LOVED for us to sign because it was cheaper in today's dollars than the last contract.

The "signing bonuses" were minimal at best. The bonuses did not even begin to cover the lost wages over the last three years.

The language in the contract eliminated much of the OT pay and flex schedule benefits so that many pilots would have taken a pay CUT under that TA. Pilots figured to take a $5k to $10k CUT in their pay with that TA.

There is a reason why 82% of the pilots voted that contract down. Most agree that the current contract is better than the one that was offered.

So, please, don't tell me or my group what we should have done.

 

[FAcFriend]

abenaki

Thanks for the insight. I am surprised the teamsters negotiators recommended a bad contract to you.

But you have peaked my curiosity and I will go back do more research.

Thanks again

 

[abenaki]

"get rid of the union and things might get better"

Why, in heaven's name, would we want to get rid of the union? And TRUST a company that has proven time and time again that they are not trustworthy? The number of contract violations filed this year alone demonstrates their lack of integrity.

And by the way, you did not respond to Gateway/Seatlock fiasco where RTS made short-term gain for himself at the expense of the trust of the union. He will never be trusted by this union because of that tactical error.

 

[Live4flyng]

Wrong!

Mngt wants to resolve this issue as well as the union does. this is why mngt paid your MEC chair to attend the negotiation meetings. Taking him off the line to be a part of your negotiation team is not part of your contract (as was stated here previously) but part of the TA that was voted down.

Taking him off the line is part of our contract in the form of an LOA.

 

[Fracster]

Thanks for the insight. I am surprised the teamsters negotiators recommended a bad contract to you.

But you have peaked my curiosity and I will go back do more research.

You have no idea how bad it really was. Lets forget about how the contract was and focus on the old MEC and Teamsters.

We had a lawyer with NO AVITAION BACKGROUND. He had worked on one LOU prior to our contract.

The MEC used to go out to dinner with the president after meetings. Talk about an ethics viloation.
The MEC went on a 2 week road show to scare pilots into voting for the contract. They actually had the gaul to say NJA was broke and this was the best we would get. When management heard the stories they were telling they were actually repimanded.
One MEC member took off two weeks during mediated negotiations to get his SWA type rating. Thankfully he did not get the job.
The local 284 provided finance people who didnt even ask the company for the proper financial statements. They took the companies word on everything. The current MEC has requested said books and the company refuses to provide them.
I can go on and on and on about how botched the whole negotiation process was prior.

My absolute favorite and factual story goes as folows:

Last year in at company recurrent BB stated, in the middle of class, that our union was doing a great job for us and that we should be proud. Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

One of the former MEC members was in that class and had the balls to turn around and smugly smile at the class.

The former MEC was a complete joke. They created one heck of a hole and fight for the current MEC.

FacFriend, feel free to ask any question. We will all be happy to give you factual information with proof. We certainly do not want to be accused of spreading half truths. Thats the companies job.

 

[abenaki]

Frac Friend--

That our previous MEC actually recommended the proposed TA was a shock to most of this pilot group. Interestingly enough, the bulk of the raises in the TA just happened to focus on the seniorit/equipment level of the members of the MEC.

Their actions in trying to force the TA down the membership's throat led many to wonder whether or not they were somehow being "compensated" for their efforts. Their behavior at the "roadshows" was confrontational, condescending threatening and downright bizarre for a group that supposedly had the best interests of their group at heart. It was some strange.

Now to be fair, there was never any proof that they were somehow paid off, but the doubt lingers.

 

[MalteseX]

Well Said

These guys are no more dispatchers for netjets than I am Pope. They are here to spread doubt and fear among the pilots. They are here to stir the pot and create anger between different employee groups. Forget about them - they aren't worth your time.

Take the time to read Confessions of a Union Buster and you'll start to see right through all the trash being posted by dsptchrNJA, FAcFriend, I-R-DXR, NJACrewservicer, casino wife, and others. Anonymous posts on this board are a perfect way for one or two people contracted by NJA to sew the seeds of doubt. Recognize them for what they are and move on.

Well said, Starman. This was pretty obvious to me from the beginning. It's amazing that the list screennames above just about covers all the non-pilot jobs in the Netjets "family" (Dispatchers, Flight Managers, Wives, Crew Services, Owners, etc). If MX were not union, there would be a MX guy on here ripping your pilots as well. By far, most guys working there support your pilots.

 

[Hogprint]

Me too. But who walked away from who?

I'm willing to bet from your point of view it was us....

From our perspective it has been the company....

Therein lies the dilemma!

 

[FAcFriend]

live4flying

Yes, we are saying the same thing- the LOA was not done for the MEC chair until recently. This was not part of your original contract but a letter of agreement from this year-

I wonder how many things we are saying the same - but using different words.

I wonder if this LOA was presented at the same time as the FO's pay raise.

 

[Ultra Grump]

And I will never understand how you can come to the point where there is no other course of action. Even if you have to settle for what they are offering for the sake of your families seems to be a better course of action to me than going on strike in the slim hope that that will convince the company to actually give in.

Sorry, but this is BS. The only real bargaining chip any unionized employee group has is the threat of a strike. Many times, a company is actually motivated to improve the lives of its employees (knowing happy employees = successful company, ala SWA) and quickly comes to an agreement acceptable to both parties. NJA is not one of these companies. So the only way to force NJA's hand is the threat of a strike. And I don't think the hope we will succeed is slim at all.

I have yet to hear a crewmember say they think that will actually work - so it appears to be punitive, rather than hopeful.

Well allow me to be the first. I think the threat of a strike will actually work. And I am very hopeful it will, as I do not look forward to striking, but will if that is what is required.

 

[dsptchrnja]

I can name over 50 people in the past 2 years who have been disciplined for calling in tired. Once again your company proganda is blinding you.

You say you haven't seen anyone being brought in? That is because you are at your work station and do not see what goes on behind the scenes. Just recently there was a X ACP, PM or what ever they are called who was keeping a list of pilots who were calling in tired.
He was forced by Hart to remove the list and we are awaiting discpline.

I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. No pilot who has LEGITIMATELY called in tired has been reprimanded (yes - that I am aware of). I wasn't going to say it but you forced me to point out that there have been crews that abused the rule.

Can I say I know the specifics of the 50 cases you mentioned (assuming for your benefit this number is accurate)? - of course not. But if you have worked here more than a week you are aware of the safety culture at NJA, and that pilots are asked to meet their responsibility as professionals and deny the trip if they are too tired.

OK, for the purposes of your argument, since they don't all cross my desk, let's say that you know with absolute certain a pilot that was reprimanded illegitimately for calling in tired. You need to LEAVE this company NOW. As a pilot you do not want to belong to an aviation company that operates this way. As a professional myself, I would raise a big stink If I even sensed it was going on and I would defend you to the bitter end. I think, after working 7 years here, if this was going on, and as close as I've been to the action, if I can't even sense that this company does it, then they must do the best job of blinding and hiding it than I could ever fathom. Get real.

I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt but come on man, think about some of the stuff you post.
The fact that we are union, since 1964 which means we had nothing to do with it, should not make any difference in our pay. Why would you even think otherwise.

I wouldn't think otherwise if it wasn't for the QOL and contentment of EJM, NJI and other non-bargaining employees. Right, you simply wouldn't be able to trust the company (as someone else pointed out) if you had no proof that they were even trustworty with non-union pilots. The whole point is - there is proof and it's blatantly obvious that the company does treat non-bargaining employees well.

You say we shouldn't go on strike because we should be happy with what the company offers and for the sake of our families?
We are using a strike as an option for that very reason. We are doing all this work for our families. We are asking for higher wages so we can send our kids to better schools and colleges, so our wife/husbands can stay home if he/she chooses to raise the children, so we can afford to live in a better neighborhoods with better schools.
You say I should just accept what NJA is offering for my families sake? Your a fooking idiot!
We dont want to go on strike. We dont want to be without a pay check. We dont want to cause irreperable damage to NJA(well the union doesnt, I don't care).

Asking for higher wages for your family is completely legitimate, but risking it all for the slim, and I mean SLIM chance that the company will give in to all your demands, in my mind, is akin to gambling it all away. That's why striking comes across as just being punitive at that point so you can hurt the company back for hurting you.

I cannot fault you for championing mediocracy.

How about responsibility, values and morality? Some things aren't worth the price you are willing to pay, you may not see that now, but some day you will. Before you start blaming the company for not having responsibility, values and morality, keep in mind, you are only responsible for yourself and your family.

You make more that most of the pilots. Do you think you are worth more than most of the pilots? I dont think so and I can guarantee 2000 other pilots feel the same way.

I make more than pilots? The fact that you would even say this speaks directly to the fact that you are willing to make decisions without factual data followed by a public statement based off pure speculation. You integrity is in serious doubt.

De-valuing my worth as an employee and then speaking on behalf of 2000 other people only further deteriorates your credibility.

By the way, do you really want your worth judged by the size of your paycheck?

 

[dsptchrnja]

DispatcherNJA....

Your arrogance is unbelievable....You say flying Jets is all we are needed for....

I'll let you in on a little secret that is obviously long lost in the casino...Before YOU had a job and while the question of, if EXECUTIVE JET AVIATION was going to succeed or not...We the pilots did everything you do today...The only difference is we did it in some little FBO in the middle of no where...then we made sure that everything including the catering was correct...then when it wasn't we ordered borrowed cars etc...to get the right stuff....We the pilots have done everything you dispatchers are doing now...And the kicker is most of us Pilots have been doing it since you were in kindergarden....

Is this your way of saying "thankyou"? Odd...

So please look at yourself in the mirror and realize the reason YOU have a job is because we pilots did everything you are doing today at a time when EXECUTIVE JET AVIATION could not afford to pay for dispatchers....

The reason I have a job is because the company made a business decision to add a dispatching staff to promote safety to it's owners. You act as though I should be thanking you personally. And your calling me arrogant??

Maybe you should respect what we have given up for you to have a JOB and appreciate that a bit more....

OK Ghost, I was with you for a minute but.... "...what we have given up.."

You were just complaining that you had to do all that crap and now I'm supposed to respect you because you gave it up for me

Please don't drink and post anymore.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Like I said, dispatch at NJA is a waste of time and money. .

Apparently Ghostrider would disagree with you - but you weren't speaking for 2000 other pilots this time I guess. So anytime you want to do your own flight planning, filing, and releasing just let your dispatcher know - they'll be happy to oblige.

They do very little that helps the pilot group and Boisture agrees.

I hope all the pilots who have been complaining about how the company is spining the information and piting BWY employees against the union are paying close attention to this comment by Fracster. Kind of hypocritical don't you say? Taking Boisture's comments completely out of context and adding your own little editorial by trying to slander a department that serves your needs. How does this help your cause?

I guess your integrity and credibility have been called into quesiton enough for one day.

 

[Fracster]

I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. No pilot who has LEGITIMATELY called in tired has been reprimanded (yes - that I am aware of). I wasn't going to say it but you forced me to point out that there have been crews that abused the rule.

Can I say I know the specifics of the 50 cases you mentioned (assuming for your benefit this number is accurate)? - of course not. But if you have worked here more than a week you are aware of the safety culture at NJA, and that pilots are asked to meet their responsibility as professionals and deny the trip if they are too tired.

OK, for the purposes of your argument, since they don't all cross my desk, let's say that you know with absolute certain a pilot that was reprimanded illegitimately for calling in tired. You need to LEAVE this company NOW. As a pilot you do not want to belong to an aviation company that operates this way. As a professional myself, I would raise a big stink If I even sensed it was going on and I would defend you to the bitter end. I think, after working 7 years here, if this was going on, and as close as I've been to the action, if I can't even sense that this company does it, then they must do the best job of blinding and hiding it than I could ever fathom. Get real.




I wouldn't think otherwise if it wasn't for the QOL and contentment of EJM, NJI and other non-bargaining employees. Right, you simply wouldn't be able to trust the company (as someone else pointed out) if you had no proof that they were even trustworty with non-union pilots. The whole point is - there is proof and it's blatantly obvious that the company does treat non-bargaining employees well.



Asking for higher wages for your family is completely legitimate, but risking it all for the slim, and I mean SLIM chance that the company will give in to all your demands, in my mind, is akin to gambling it all away. That's why striking comes across as just being punitive at that point so you can hurt the company back for hurting you.




How about responsibility, values and morality? Some things aren't worth the price you are willing to pay, you may not see that now, but some day you will. Before you start blaming the company for not having responsibility, values and morality, keep in mind, you are only responsible for yourself and your family.



I make more than pilots? The fact that you would even say this speaks directly to the fact that you are willing to make decisions without factual data followed by a public statement based off pure speculation. You integrity is in serious doubt.

De-valuing my worth as an employee and then speaking on behalf of 2000 other people only further deteriorates your credibility.

By the way, do you really want your worth judged by the size of your paycheck?

Pilots have been disciplined for calling in fatigued. Safety Culture???????
Try waking at 4:00am and getting shut off at noon and being told you have a 9:00am local show the next day just to be called out just passed legal, yes, 12:00 midnight. Ok, those are the regs, had our 12 hours lets go to work. Since we started before 4:00am we do not have to work more than 10 hours. Simple right? Try having an ACP threaten your job, then the CP threaten your job, then have me call their bluff and they back down. How many people at NJA stand up for themselves? Not that many. Safety culture my arse. I was later called in because I called their bluff. As for leaving, trust me we are all trying. Working with your mentality is not how I want to spend the rest of my career. As for making a big stink, it was done. What does the company do about it? Nothing as usual but you probably already know that. You must be fooking clueless to not see what is going on.

Wages. Well since you think we have a slim chance of getting a descent contract we might as well give up now. I suppose you never worked for anything substantial, except mediocracy again, so how could you possibly understand what we are doing. If the company can't afford to pay reasonable wages for what we do then, yeah, they shouldnt be in business. I truly hope the place goes out of business. Don't even bother responding.

Settling for for the contract the corrupt former MEC and the company agreed to would be irresponsible and imoral since it had very little value. That contract had us taking a PAY CUT. I would be doing my wife and children a disservice if I voted yes on that contract. I would be irresponsible of me to not fight to the very end for a better contract. NJA still hasnt made an offer that would pay us more than a regional airline captain.

A first officer makes $27,000 dollars a year. They wont make more than $32,000 dollars no matter how long they are here. You do and will make more than that in 1/4 the time, heck a captain starts at $37,500.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. You listen to Boisture and his spin and accept it as gospel. Your character and blind faith speaks to cult like following, lemmings and mass suicide.

Boisture will tell you that our contract was incredible because he generously offered a 12% raise when you will only see a 3-4% raise per year. Open your eyes for a sec. A 12% raise to what we are making now didnt even make us the highest paid fractional pilot. Boisture and the sales staff tout us as the largest, safest and most well trained. The sales people have the audacity to tell customers we make as much as airline pilots.

Take a moment, step back from the computer, ram your head into a wall a few times and once the fog clears and the headache goes away we will welcome you back to reality.

Before you do this make sure you go back to your little crew ops site and read Bositures latest spin on company finances. I want you to see how broke the company is. I want you to read how the company pays out to the pilots over 100 million dollars a year and how the pilots want more than 200 hundred. I want you to soak all that information in so that once your have resinded your legendary lemming status you will realize that 50% of nothing is still nothing.

Since you are up there in the puzzle palace everyday go and ask Boisture something. In all seriousness go ask him how much the company brings in a year. Ask him how much NJA has at the end of the year. Ask him where it all goes and that is the part he wont tell the union. Any idiot can take a set of numbers and spin them in the direction he or she wants. Most people don't like figures or fractions so, like you, they rarely delve further to crunch the numbers.

Lastly, we have done the service. Its time for NJA to pay us. If it can't then I pray every night it wont be around much longer. The days of feeling priviledged to work for a company like NJA are long gone. NJA is lucky to has us. We come to work, operate the machinery safely and efficiently and provide spectacular customer service. NJA tells us we are draining the company and that the business model is flawed, or competition is tight. If we have 75% of the market share how are things really. We are already more expensive than our competitors yet customers flock to NJA becuase, say it with me class, we operate the machinery safely and efficiently and provide spectacular customer service.

As for the last part of your statement.....please tell me you have better!

 

[Starman]

I'll say it again. Why are you bothering to argue with this "person" that represents itself as a dispatcher at netjets?

This is very obviously an entity hired to stir up anger and disrespect. Why bother responding to this thing's posts?

Go read Confessions of a Union Buster. The posts by dsptchrNJA will lose any validity once you know where they come from.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

True. Why respond to this management tool ? Just alot of babble.

 

[FAcFriend]

Starman-

I have to agree these arguments are not productive.

I do know from a reliable source that Dispatcher is who he says he is.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Starman-

I have to agree these arguments are not productive.

Yes, I agree whole heartedly.

Good day, stay safe out there.