Netjets Casino employees

[x402]

OK, one more time with smaller words.....




It's ironic that the non-union pilots were able to negotiate better compensation, workrules and basing than you could and now you want to force them into your union to share your good deal.


NJI, do not negotiate. Mr Santulli gives them what he wants to give them. They are UNDERPAID compared to most G4-G5 drivers.



It's interesting that the NJA Boeing pilots have formed their own company with a separate pay scale starting at $135K and make up to $213K for flying a larger aircraft, but you guys never mention that. Really, ask yourselves why is there a split here?

The BBJ pilots are NJA pilots. The agreement (LOA) spells out the compensation for these pilots. It is bidable and they are on NJA's senority list.

Is this too hard to follow?

 

[dsptchrnja]

Netjets pilots are not your enemys.

Then you must be our friends.

Wait... No friend of mine will put my job in jeapordy for his own personal benifit. Sorry, but you wreak of hypocrosy.

Conversely, who said anything about being an enemy in the first place? The only people I've heard bring up the topic are NJA pilots.

Let's make it simple (again). You won't find too many people in the Casino who won't support a pay raise for crews. That's never been the issue for them. Most people never cared until recently when the issue of the strike came up. That is what people are concerned with - not your paycheck. See, we can be just as selfish. Most really only care about there own livlihood when it comes down to it.

It's not what you want, it's what you threaten to do if you don't get it. This quote sound familiar from anyone you know recently???

“Suck it up, we’re at war here!” So the flow of information will be unrelenting until our objectives are achieved or the doors are closed." [emphasis mine]

So whose the real threat? If the company gets their way Casino employees are safe - if the pilots don't get what they want - sounds like the only thing they care about at that point is revenge. Ya, keep trying to make me us feel like you're the victim and you're on our side.

We are asking for and will not accept anything less that what NJI has. How can the company claim we woud go out of business to pay us more, then on the other hand pay another section of the company in this manner. NJI flys from home, I thought this would break the company? Really, ask yourselves why is there a split here?

Fact is you don't know what the bottom line is for either company - it's all perception until Union leaders actually want to look at the facts. Very telling that they continue to refuse the company's offer for the books to be opened by a third party.

You ask why one of our MEC would not sign a non-disclosure form. This union has said they always will keep the lines of comunication truthful and OPEN. The fact that this man would not sign it, even though it would make him look bad to some people, should show you the resolve and INTEGRITY of this man. A man of lesser character may have broken, signed it, and broke his promise to the pilot group. I applaud him. You should too.

I'm rather pleased with him myself. If he continues to keep it up - the threat of a strike becomes less and less likely as the mediator can clearly see that the union is unwilling to have reasonable discussions and look over vital financial information. In order for the union to release you to strike, Netjets has to be found faulty at some point in the bargaining process. So far, that just isn't happening - no matter how badly you want to punish the company for not paying you what you want.

You're paying them to bargain a new contract - seems like that isn't even on the unions mind anymore (or the pilots they represent) - I could be wrong. The non-disclusure issue seems to make that case. What's more important? Do you want all the nitty-gritty details or do you trust your MEC chairman to handle the facts on his own and get you a new contract? Non-disclosures shouldn't become a road block in these kinds of negotiations.

You ask why we will not believe the chosen books provided by management, when they do not contain much of the truth. Does it show the 57 dollar quarts of oil at our own facilties, does it show the overpricing that FlightSafety charges Netjets? That money goes from one BKS pocket to another. Is that money shown on the profit line. Who insures our airplanes? Is it a BKS company? Are they competitive rates or is money shifting pockets there too? What about the money customers pay up front for engine reserves, they pay up front and the engines are done every 4 or 5 years. What is the interest on that amount of money? Is it shown on the profit line? How bout the loans to NJE? Are they paying them back? With Interest? A zero interest loan would save the company millions wouldnt it? Would that be shown on the profit line?
There are so many more examples. Can you honestly tell me that this isnt happening? If so, you are naive.

Can you say you know the motives, reasons, facts, figures behind all the business decisions? Did they ask for your advice?

PLEASE... stick to flying planes. That's all they need you for.

You ask why we would take this job and yell about the pay 7 years later. I took this job to build time and leave. RTS spoke at Hamilton road in my first year. Yes Brideway was not even a dream then. He told me and about 100 pilots directly, that he would make this the place to be in aviation. He told us he realized the pay was low and it would change. He spoke with such conviction, I, and a lot of pilots belevied him. ITS BEEN 7 YEARS. Time for him to put up or shut up. I have done my part to keep this gorrilla growing. It is his turn. Is he the type of man that will go back on his word? Does he have half the integrity our union leadership does? We will find out.

Alot of you have become unwitting pawns the company is using against the pilots. This is sad. Believe half what you hear from management and realize even the true parts will be spun. Please keep posting your questions, but with the tone that is used most of the time, its hard to believe that you dont see why most pilots see it as flame.

Funny, the only one trying to tell me how I should feel is pilot groups. I started thinking for myself quite a while ago.

 

[Lancair]

Not that it has any bearing on us because I think it's to late. When UPS Pilots went on strike they had the support of the truck drivers. 2 years later the pilots did the same for the drivers. The company is just trying to feed everyone a line so that we stay divided. Do you really think anyone in management has our best intrests at heart. I've just come from one failing airline hopping for the best here. If there is anything I've learned in my life is upper management cares only about the bottom line. That means more money for them and screw the people who helped get you there. So if your in the casino don't believe everything you here from the company. Most pilots would love to make this a great place to stay.

 

[x402]

Can you say you know the motives, reasons, facts, figures behind all the business decisions? Did they ask for your advice?

PLEASE... stick to flying planes. That's all they need you for.


The more of this I see, the less I worry about folks upstairs. Keep drinking that koolaid, Bill and Rich would be proud. There are lots of jobs at the Limited loading trucks. That should see you throught any difficulties in the future.
I'm sorry I'm not as PC as 750, but your harrassing posts don't leave much room for compassion.

 

[dsptchrnja]

>>>
>>>
It's interesting that the NJA Boeing pilots have formed their own company with a separate pay scale starting at $135K and make up to $213K for flying a larger aircraft, but you guys never mention that. Really, ask yourselves why is there a split here?

The BBJ pilots are NJA pilots. The agreement (LOA) spells out the compensation for these pilots. It is bidable and they are on NJA's senority list.

Is this too hard to follow?

Mr. X, any particular reason you had to quote this guy again and tell us again what you arleady stated once?

Give it a rest. Besides, you're all being a little harsh. He never said BBJ pilots weren't from NJA - in fact he said NJA BOEING PILOTS.

That being said, it is TRUE that Boeing is technically a separate company from NJA - that's why it's called NJLA. That's why they have their own FOM seperate from yours.

And it is true they have their own payscale. So why are you jumping his case rather than just answering his question?

 

[dsptchrnja]

The more of this I see, the less I worry about folks upstairs. Keep drinking that koolaid, Bill and Rich would be proud. There are lots of jobs at the Limited loading trucks. .

Thanks friend.

 

[dsptchrnja]

"... but your harrassing posts don't leave much room for compassion.

"...until our objectives are achieved or the doors are closed." [emphasis mine]

either does this.

 

[x402]

Yes there was/is a reason. He's an idiot. Asks stupid questions and when he gets an answer won't believe or understand it. BBJ pilots are covered as 284/1108 union pilots. We don't care if you call them NJLA or Big Fu$$ing Jets. They are pilots from our senority list, as opposed to NJI. We can only educate people for so long.

I don't believe you are any friend of mine or any other pilot here. Your sweet 40 hour a week job is being jerked around by Boisture and Santulli so you need someone to blame. Fire away.
When it all hits the fan, I can file,check notams, weather and fly the plane. What do you think owners wants, nice flight plans or pilots.

 

[On Your Six]

Thanks friend.

Don't tell me you wouldn't be upset if you were paid 30-50% less than your Part 91 peers and you had been negotiating a new contract for years with no progress...

With all due respect, you are not a professional pilot (beyond basic ratings). You have not paid your dues like most NJA pilots - regardless of your personal situation. If NJA management is smart (and that is a stretch), they will figure out that providing a FAIR contract to its pilots (at least bring the salaries up to Part 91 average for each aircraft type) is in the best interest of everyone... Poor morale among the pilots equals bad news for everyone - including the anal-retentive owners... This is a service business and poor pilot treatment leads to poor service - why is that difficult to understand? Warren Buffet and BH have considerable cash and everyone knows there is considerable waste throughout the NJA system.

Time to pay up or get ready for a long summer (and maybe fall) break...

 

[ce750drvr]

To those of you upstairs,

Quit yer bitchen about "you knew what you were making when you came here" crap!!!

You knew (or had the ability to find out) that we were union and could possibly go on strike someday.

If you didn't know or didn't find out, that's not our fault. It's yours!!

You're GD right we will strike if we have too. We should just roll over just for you so you can keep your job?? Whatever!! You sound like my ex-wife. "It is all about you isn't it??", she would say. Come to find out, the counselor made her see it was all about her. It's all about YOU because that is all I have read here. "You are threatening my job", "my family", "my this", "my that"..

Enough already. We will do what WE have to. Be it a strike or recess or find another job. You do what YOU have to, whatever that may be.

Also, how many times do we have to tell you people that we refused to look at the books that they offered. THE COMPANY REFUSED TO SHOW US THE BOOKS THAT WE REQUESTED TO LOOK AT. Why don't you ask the company what they have to hide by not showing US the books we want? I will tell you......A SH!T LOAD OF HIDDEN MONEY THAT THEY DON'T WANT US TO KNOW ABOUT. That is why we will strike.

So instead of being pissed at us, why don't you direct some of that anomosity towards the company, for they are the reason we will strike. Ergo, their fault.

MORONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I swear!!!!!!!!!!! It is not that difficult!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AA717driver]

NJI pilots are not paid at the top of the GIV scale for corporate pilots. But they aren't on the bottom, either. They aren't corporate pilots. They don't have hanger duties. They don't have to put in face time. Their job has much more in common with airline pilots than corporate pilots.

For flying a 75k lb. or 91k lb. airplane, their pay is comparable to airline pilots flying planes in the same weight class. In fact, they are well ahead of the pay at JB for the 190, a much heavier aircraft.

Just a thought.TC

 

[On Your Six]

NJI pilots are not paid at the top of the GIV scale for corporate pilots. But they aren't on the bottom, either. They aren't corporate pilots. They don't have hanger duties. They don't have to put in face time. Their job has much more in common with airline pilots than corporate pilots.

For flying a 75k lb. or 91k lb. airplane, their pay is comparable to airline pilots flying planes in the same weight class. In fact, they are well ahead of the pay at JB for the 190, a much heavier aircraft.

Just a thought.TC

Appreciate your thought, but your JetBlue example is not a good one. JetBlue pilots don't have a union and they are impotent - they have zero control and now JetBlue's management will bring down airline pilot pay (and hurt mainline and regional pay rates in the process). Captains flying 747s for Orient Thai Airways are earning roughly $40K per year - but their aircraft are heavier than most. Chinese pilots are paid even less to fly 777s and A340-600s. Your point about aircraft weight doesn't work unless you suggest everyone flying aircraft smaller than the 747 earn less than Orient Thai Airways pilots...

Your point about comparable Part 91 pay rates is understood. However, paying Citation X Captains $57K per year is just a joke - regardless of whether their schedule mirrors an airline-like schedule or not. Paying a newhire G200 or Citation X or Citation Sovereign FO roughly $30K per year for 3-4 years is obscene and everyone knows it....... It hurts everyone in the business - screw that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Warren has tons of money - and now he has more given that he has screwed the pilots for the last 3 years... Time to pay up...

 

[netjetwife]

Did you miss it, or are you ignoring it?

Dsptchr, my post on page one of this thread made it clear that the MEC chairman is NOT on the negotiating team and his leaving the room had NO BEARING ON WHAT TOOK PLACE. We were all apprised of the proceedings which followed because one of the negotiators posted a full report to the pilots. Communication is a top priority for Local 1108. Your post shows a basic lack of understanding so I will help fill you in. The leadership positions are voluntary--we do not pay them.

You are distorting the issue of looking at the books, as well. Actually, what is telling, is that the company is the one refusing to open the only books which hold the critical information--those of NJ INC, not to be confused with NJA. That said, the NEGOTIATING TEAM (whose job it is) HAS looked at the bits and pieces of financial information that have been offered to our side. To put it plainly, it's a case of "been there, done that" now let's see the REAL DEAL. If you're going to discuss the issue of refusals, please get the facts straight.

Whether we are talking about NJI, EJM, NJE, or the BBJ pilots of NJA--the fact remains that all of these pilots are employees working under the umbrella of NetJets Incorporated and have salaries much greater than their "poor cousins" at NJA. One can proffer different theories to explain the discrepancy, but it is logical to conclude that the other employee groups just did a better job of getting a good deal for themselves from the parent company. It must be noted that NJ Inc has managed to pay fair/good wages to all of these pilots while continuing to grow and prosper---last year the company had a 28% increase over 2003. Last year they also tried to tell the NJA pilots they were broke, a claim that is hard to continue while Santulli is bragging in the NY Times (today's issue) that demand "has been incredible". Faced with a tough negotiating team this time around, management has stopped telling the pilots they're not making money and has even admitted that the NJA profits have been used to subsidize NJ Europe while NJ Inc grows that part of the business.

Will the company have to make cut backs if they pay the NJA pilots like they do others in NJ Inc? Possibly so, but I seriously doubt that any of you in the "Casino" would notice whether or not a new NJ overseas was started up this year instead of waiting another year or so. We all need to think beyond ourselves and realize that this is a huge international company bent on rapid growth. They will tell ALL of their employees, regardless of their union affiliation or job descriptions, that the money isn't there BECAUSE THEY HAVE DIFFERENT PRIORITIES AND WANT TO SPEND THE MONEY ELSEWHERE. They may also be arrogant enough to believe that many of us don't read the NY Times. Or perhaps they're just too busy to be concerned with any of our families. After all, according to Mr Santulli, "customers are flying much more than they ever did before."

A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS

IT IS TIME TO PAY ALL OF THE NJ INC PILOTS PROFESSIONAL WAGES

 

[TurboJetCpt]

Hey don't worry dsptchrNJA, your "friend" Bill Moisture already TOLD YOU that there wouldn't be any layoffs. You should feel secure and HAPPY

All is good and the bad pilots will be gone soon. Then you can dispatch your little heart out for the SCABS that remain...have fun.

 

[Diesel]

PLEASE... stick to flying planes. That's all they need you for.

That's a nice touch. That might be all they need us for but just remember they NEED us.