NetJets' Captains need to get over themselves!

[o2bflyn]

just fueling the fire by posting this HERE......

Man up and post this same thing at the union board.

I would even venture to say, BEFORE it gets to the union boards.....talk it out with the Captains.....give them a chance to defend their decisions before you go running to the "principle's office."

 

[X-rated]

In my past life I was a captain for 15 yrs. I never had to take a plane from anyone, or didnt let a guy fly. But those were the airline days, when you slammed it on and laughed about while not caring about the people in the back (you know what I mean). This is a different type of flying. The captain has more responsibilties at the fractionals than at the airlines. I am here to assist him. I usually have 10,000 hours more flight time, but I understand that he is the captain and its his a$$. I dont have a problem with that. Do I still like to fly? sure I do. Do I want to fly from the right seat? Not really. Can I fly from the right seat? sure, its just a little odd for me. Do I get upset if I dont fly during the tour? not at all. I am here to help the captain, go home, and get paid. The rest will take care of itself.

Ski,

The difference is that you are a professional Jet Pilot, and he is "a Gold Seal flight instructor (CFII, MEI) who is an expert on teaching and performing such "advanced" flying techniques as the "dreaded" crosswind landing." In time, and with experience, he will learn to appreciate the difference.

Porter,

At my company, SIC's may fly pax legs from the seat of their choice after they have been recommended for, and pass a 299 line check. It's a case by case deal, and it takes as long as it takes.

I have a hard time believing that every PIC you have flown with in 5 mo's is an SOB. Is it possible there is more to the story? I think a frank and nonemotional conversation outside the cockpit is needed. My guess is that you are being perceived differently than you see yourself. To be honest, your first post was a huge red flag.

It has been my observation that the best pilots I know are generally the most humble. They are never satisfied with their performance and continually strive to improve. I guarantee none have ever proclaimed themselves an expert. Take it for what it's worth, and consider what you paid for it.

 

[Pervis]

Using pretty broad strokes Buckeye. Pre 2000 pilots account for less than 20% of the pilots on the property today. I would also venture to use broad strokes in describing post 2000 hires. Many if not most had military and/or legacy experience. Hardly the "undesireables" that you imply working at NJA/NJI.

How many of those pilots ever flew into uncontrolled airports? I never did. That group would probably be the most inclined to "err" within class G operations. But we have folks like you who can quote the written word and set us straight.

 

[Allen1]

If you confronted me with this kind of rant I probably would not let you fly either. I understand what you are saying but I think you are go at it all wrong.

Maybe the Captains have seen something in your flying that they don't like. Ask them. "Hey is there something I have done wrong?" You m ay find if you confront them in a professional manner, they may just give you a chance.

Believe me, I know that there are Captains that are out there that think they are the next Chuck Yeager. My advice would be to play into their ego. "Hey man, what do I need to work on so I can fly more legs?"

For the record, if you walked onto my airplane with only a few months experience and I had not flown with you. I would not let you fly passengers either at first. Show me you can fly the airplane first then I'll let you embarrass yourself with passengers.

You're right because I've never seen a captain at netjets make a Sh"""y landing!

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Coming up on 11 months and almost done with probation on the XL. Not ONCE have I had a captain do any of the things you say occur on a regular basis. We all fly with captains once in a while that leave a lot to be desired, but do you think maybe you should look at yourself honestly and ask why he/she doesn't let me fly pax legs. Not trying to start a fight, but you might wanna re-adjust your game plan if you ever plan on pounding one on with an audience other than your friend in the left seat

 

[CFIIer]

I finished flight safety no too long ago, and I'm waiting on IOE myself. So, when I saw the title of this thread, it grabbed my attention. After reading the initial post a second time, I'm more inclined to feel that this is flame bait. I'm pretty confident that nobody hired this year (especially with as stiff as the competition is) would be complaining about this job in the least. Your profile doesn't even show you having an ATP or the plane you are typed in at NJ. Looking at your previous posts, you've never once discussed anything NetJets related, and you've been a member since atleast '06. If I am wrong, then dude, come on, you've got a good gig... and you've only been doing it five months.

 

[Waldom]

I haven't seen the problem from either the right or left seat in the fleet I'm operating in. Within the restrictions of the F.O.M., the F/O gets every other leg.

I simply assume the other pilot can fly better than I can and I haven't been wrong yet.

All seriousness aside,the root cause of the situation you describe is usually a left-seater that is uncomfortable in the airplane, in command, or both.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

PORTER = tool

I noticed that you have been with NJA less then a year, but on this site since 2005. I laughed at your ID name here, PORTER. A porter is one who carries and/or handles bags. So, you knew your place long before you even signed on with NJA.

Your first two paragraphs have a lot of possessive words, i.e. I'm and my. So, upon reading the rest of your rant; it appears you really have issues. Low selfesteem one would suspect.

It's funny how you rant here under an anonymous cloak for you to maneuver. Why not use the union message board? Maybe because your name will be out there for all to see; I don't know. If not there then why not use the Pro Stands group? Either of these resourses would serve your needs just fine. I don't think you have a pair to use the union message board due the the outcome. Your QOL on the road would hit a new low for ya. Take out your saber, charge ahead for the fight, but be prepared to fall on that same saber. Or start confronting the captains you fly with now, but stop the whine fest here. Time to get a pair and stand up for yourself.

Sounds like your in the Falcon fleet, but you don't say.

 

[o2bflyn]

You're right because I've never seen a captain at netjets make a Sh"""y landing!

Well, Sh***y andings occur with Captains at the controls, but it usually the winds fault.

 

[B727FA]

Sounds like your in the Falcon fleet, but you don't say.

How do you figure? I didn't think any new hires went into the Falcon this year. Just curious.

 

[Hamburger]

I haven't confronted anyone about it

The only part of the post that says anything about your situation. The rest is just static.

I laughed at your ID name here, PORTER. A porter is one who carries and/or handles bags. So, you knew your place long before you even signed on with NJA.

:laugh::laugh:Burn!

 

[flyipilot]

I had a tour a month ago where the CA offered me to fly a pax leg in the X. I did from the right seat and since I ferry from the left seat, it was a fun challenge. But, I was not expecting to fly any pax legs and this was my first. In fact, when offered another time I passed. I have nothing to prove at this point in my career and the paycheck is the same even if I am sitting in a hotel. I agree with Skiand surf (those of you who know this great guy know he neither skiis or surfs) that I prefer to fly form the left seat but if they change it to right seat flying for SIC..oh well. No big deal. I have had tours where all we did was ferry and I flew everything and tours where we never ferry and I never flew. I am o.k. with both. This job is so much more than just flying the plane. I respect what ever choice a Capt gives me when flying a leg. I am there to support him and pamper our customers. The biggest problem I have seen on line with a few Capts. is not being standard or using the checklists fully. But, like I said very few and far between.

Porter, from your original post, you sound fantastic on paper and I am sure you are in person. Heck, from how you describe yourself, I am proud to have you as a fellow pilot in this company and I see we did a great job in selecting you. It is very hard to get through the hiring process and feel good that you did. A lot of people here who were hired way back when might not even stand a chance now...me included. Been here 2 years but, it has even gotten harder now. Just keep in mind that this is the top job in avaiation and we hire only the best pilots. Go out and enjoy the tours, one day you will be PIC and have all the pax legs you want...

 

[Buckeye]

I have flown with a lot of great capt here at NJ, but the most dangerous kind are the ones that do not listen when you voice your concern. Wether it is regulatory or SOP.

 

[cldsfr79]

Porter,

Sorry about some of the issues you have had with the PICs here at NJA. Yes, there seem to be a couple more tools in our shed than at the airlines, but most of the guys here are great.

Here's why you might not be flying pax legs as much as you would like.

1.Back in the days, PIC flew passenger legs all the time, it was a rule. So if this guy is old school he might play by the old rules.

2. You still haven't told us what fleet you're in, but I heard some PIC is certain fleets, like the X, enjoy their ego a bit, and like flying the pax legs.

3. There are a number of guys here that used to fly either single pilot freight or some other type of single pilot job. I have flown with these guys before, and most do a great job and are a pleasure to fly with, but there are some who just can't seem to function in a two crew environment.

4. I'm going out on a limb on this one but....maybe some guys are uncomfortable with their own flying skills so they can't trust others with the "honor" of flying passengers.

5. If you are flying someone famous, some guys think it's cool to be the one at the controls.

That's it. All in all most the guys here are great guys and do a good job. Try to hang in there.


Come over to 400. I'll let you fly pax legs and fly from the throne (the left seat)

 

[xrated]

I am a Gold Seal flight instructor (CFII, MEI) who is an expert on teaching and performing such "advanced" flying techniques as the "dreaded" crosswind landing. I have flown all over the country around some of the worst weather imaginable and had to make tough decisions. In other words, this is not my first rodeo.

Man, with those qualifications, I'd blow off NetJets and apply at NASA. They're allways looking for a good Shuttle commander......Wow, Gold Seal....Really? Man, words can't describe how proud of you I am and I don't even know you.....GOLD SEAL CFII, MEI.....Get Out! Very nice.

 

[o2bflyn]

Man, with those qualifications, I'd blow off NetJets and apply at NASA. They're allways looking for a good Shuttle commander......Wow, Gold Seal....Really? Man, words can't describe how proud of you I am and I don't even know you.....GOLD SEAL CFII, MEI.....Get Out! Very nice.

You have to be platinum seal for Shuttle Commander.

 

[scarface]

SKIANDSURF is much too mature to be a pilot. I suggest a career change.

 

[imacdog]

Coming up on 11 months and almost done with probation on the XL. Not ONCE have I had a captain do any of the things you say occur on a regular basis. We all fly with captains once in a while that leave a lot to be desired, but do you think maybe you should look at yourself honestly and ask why he/she doesn't let me fly pax legs. Not trying to start a fight, but you might wanna re-adjust your game plan if you ever plan on pounding one on with an audience other than your friend in the left seat

It is quite possibly a fleet-specific thing. I have also had only a very small number of captains on the Excel who wanted to fly all passenger legs, but I have been approached by someone in a different fleet who had also had nearly every captain only wanting him to fly empty legs.

 

[tk855]

Porter,

Not to detract from your original topic, but my money is betting you are in the 800xp (honeywell) or the 800/900xpc. Did I win??

 

[old*art]

As the old saying goes, if all you have to work with is a hammer, the whole world is a nail. Methinks he needs a few more clubs in his bag - maybe they will come with a few more ice cream seasons at NJA. But then again its not for everyone.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

How do you figure? I didn't think any new hires went into the Falcon this year. Just curious.

I just know this issue happening within this fleet. I won't discuss it in more detail since it doesn't need to be a public issue. I have not heard it happening in any other fleet.
Now the whole switching seats to fly a pax leg is another story. Some FOs we have must fly a pax leg from the left seat. Don't know or understand why, but they can't do it from the right seat.

 

[gunfyter]

I just know this issue happening within this fleet. I won't discuss it in more detail since it doesn't need to be a public issue. I have not heard it happening in any other fleet.
Now the whole switching seats to fly a pax leg is another story. Some FOs we have must fly a pax leg from the left seat. Don't know or understand why, but they can't do it from the right seat.

Nobody I know likes flying from the right seat of the Falcon. But if the number of repo flights is going down I guess we will have to learn to love it.

 

[Semore Butts]

I just went back and read the original post again.

At first I thought This was some F.O. that left the computer logged on at an FBO?

Then he answered back again?

Here is part of it;

NetJets hired me because they had confidence in my experience and my abilities. I passed training and IOE with flying colors. I'm pretty sure I've impressed (as have many others hired at NetJets and other companies) my Captains that I've flown with every time. I am "young" in the scheme of things with a lot of career ahead of me, which I suspect is causing some unfair prejudging from some of you "advanced" in years folks.

You sir, are a jerk. I don't give a sh!t how great you think you are.

Your career thus far appears mediocre at best. Your attitude sucks. You are very fortunate to have been hired here at Netjets at seemlingly a young age.

Call me back in 4000 more hours, get a few more type ratings, and we'll talk then, when we are "peers". I wonder how old you will be then?

I'm sorry Porter, you really pissed me off. Not that you care what I think?

 

[Flex-ible]

At Flexjet, I sit in the right seat all the time (only a standards CA offered the left seat, for an empty leg). But I normally fly every other leg, regardless of whether there are pax or not. Recently, I was surprised that CA gave me a leg into LGA on our first day together. Leter he had me fly two in a row so he could eat breakfast!

Bottom line: I respect the captain's authority - and they have always respected the experience and training that got me to where I am.

 

[fischman]

At first I thought This was some F.O. that left the computer logged on at an FBO?

Then he answered back again?

Here is part of it;

NetJets hired me because they had confidence in my experience and my abilities. I passed training and IOE with flying colors. I'm pretty sure I've impressed (as have many others hired at NetJets and other companies) my Captains that I've flown with every time. I am "young" in the scheme of things with a lot of career ahead of me, which I suspect is causing some unfair prejudging from some of you "advanced" in years folks.

You sir, are a jerk. I don't give a sh!t how great you think you are.

Your career thus far appears mediocre at best. Your attitude sucks. You are very fortunate to have been hired here at Netjets at seemlingly a young age.

Call me back in 4000 more hours, get a few more type ratings, and we'll talk then, when we are "peers". I wonder how old you will be then?

I'm sorry Porter, you really pissed me off. Not that you care what I think?

I don't know man. If he's close to my age, its going to take 15 to 20 years to be one of your peers! BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!!:beer:

 

[OurMoney1]

What a *************************...

Pilots like you used to have a bad habit of getting locked in the cargo hold for a leg or two back in the day.

My apologies to the crews that have to work with you.

 

[fischman]

Who me? I was just playing with a buddy!

 

[brokeflyer]

At first I thought This was some F.O. that left the computer logged on at an FBO?

Then he answered back again?

Here is part of it;

NetJets hired me because they had confidence in my experience and my abilities. I passed training and IOE with flying colors. I'm pretty sure I've impressed (as have many others hired at NetJets and other companies) my Captains that I've flown with every time. I am "young" in the scheme of things with a lot of career ahead of me, which I suspect is causing some unfair prejudging from some of you "advanced" in years folks.

You sir, are a jerk. I don't give a sh!t how great you think you are.

Your career thus far appears mediocre at best. Your attitude sucks. You are very fortunate to have been hired here at Netjets at seemlingly a young age.

Call me back in 4000 more hours, get a few more type ratings, and we'll talk then, when we are "peers". I wonder how old you will be then?

I'm sorry Porter, you really pissed me off. Not that you care what I think?

once again the "talent aquistion" team failed....

get over yourself, I hope you fly with me, I'll give ya something to cry about.

 

[Semore Butts]

No worries, Fischmans a pal of mine!

Hey Fisch! I was nice!

I erased about half of it.


HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Brokeflyer you kill me man!

"I hope you fly with me, I'll give ya something to cry about".

BwaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[o2bflyn]

Maybe I am missing something here. What is the big deal about which seat you fly in? I know the arguement is trading legs, but I think some people are getting torques around because they dont get to fly left seat.

The only time the seat you physically fly from matters is when your ego needs a boost.