NetJets Application/Interview ?

[zman300]

hey Zman When your done sucking uncle sams thumb, and join us in the real (civillian)world, ............

I also wish, these bitter NJA guys would quit hijacking perfectly innocent posts! Start a new thread for your bitching for goodness' sake! Peace.


I bet you will understand why NJ pilots are bitching.

I joined you in the civilian world almost two years ago. At NJI, to be precise; I love it. Believe it or not, many on the "I" side actually understand and sympathize with the "A" side's gripes, me included. I'm not anti-union because of unions' sake, but because we see all the wonderful things they've accomplished for the "A" side. Now I know some of the A folks will claim that we enjoy many of the work amenities we do because of the A side's hard work in bargaining such deals (hotels, workout rooms, crew lounges, etc.), but who really cares about such "benefits?" They haven't put a dent in what folks on the A side really want, have they? Do you really care about free internet access in Seacaucus? Do you now say "Wow, what an awesome place to work! I can surf the web at the ES for free!" Or do you want a fatter paycheck?

Anyway, the zealots on BOTH sides of the union issue really carry too much animosity with them. Seems like anytime "Netjets" appears on any thread here, it inevitably turns into a gripe session. Crap, does anyone even remember what the original topic of this post was?!

 

[El Chupacabra]

TIP...

CitationShares pays about $100K more over your first 3 yrs.

 

[netjetwife]

I'd ask several pointed questions about the expected timeframe for upgrading to Captain. My husband was told 3-6 months; this January makes 2 years, with no upgrade in sight. Take a hard look before you leap!

 

[Diesel]

I'd ask several pointed questions about the expected timeframe for upgrading to Captain. My husband was told 3-6 months; this January makes 2 years, with no upgrade in sight. Take a hard look before you leap!

sounds like someone didn't do their research.

if u want info from somebody that actually works here pm me.

 

[netjetwife]

Research, per request

Actually, it is worse than I thought... Here are the facts, RJFlyer--courtesy of my husband, who I am quoting below.

Currently there are over 700 FOs at NetJets.

Assumption: 10 Captain Upgrades per month. This is a very generous
assumption. We have not even been close to that in the nearly 2 years that I have been here.

Assumption: No Captains bid a Captain position in another aircraft.
Only FOs bid and receive Captain awards. This has not even been close to
reality since I have been here. Very few CA bids have gone to FOs.

700 pilots divided by 10 pilots per month upgraded equals 70 months (6
years) to upgrade from today.


Opinion: The only way rapid upgrades to Captain will happen is through
an extraordinary occurrence such as explosive NetJet sales and growth not
tied to a merger or buyout, or by an organized bypass pay effort similar to
the one that just occurred, or by a large loss of pilots from the pilot group due to
retirement or career/company changes.

Recommendation: If wanting to work at NetJets, expect greater than 5
year upgrade to Captain as the minimum. Reality is that it will probably
take 7-10 years. Look at the corresponding compensation. If upgrades occur
sooner it will be the exception, and not the rule. Don't count on bypass pay
for a pay raise.


Netjetwife here again...I'm standing by my earlier post to look before you leap. After doing my research, I'd only add, take a VERY VERY hard look before you leap. By way of additional information, the company offered the following FO payscale in the defeated (by 82%) TA: Year 1=$33,500 yr5=$38,540 The payscale stopped at yr 5 with no COLA provided.

 

[FAcFriend]

There are 700 fo's at net jets but how many are paid as Fo's?
The vast majority are paid as captains and the majority were paid as captains before the current by pass coup.

No Cola was offered but there was a yearly increase offered that was not tied to the cost of living.

 

[netjetwife]

What an eyebrow-raising post!

'Friend, how does that apply to potential new-hires like RJFlyer? The FACTS that I gave him are the ones that would apply to HIS situation. In the interest of providing as much info as possible, let's look at the FO pay for those on the (proposed but defeated by 82%) Reserve Schedule. Keep in mind that only the top 10% in seniority would be eligible; but for those interested in a look at FO wages in the outyears, here they are: Year 1=$39K Then we see your yearly increases up to Year 5=$44,040. So to recap--FO wages begin at $33,500 and increase yearly up to the 5 yr Limit of $38,540 for those on the 7&7. The top 10% MAX OUT at $44,040. There is NO payscale for FOs beyond year 5 and NO COLA. The ONLY yearly increases were from years 1-5. Additionally, those interviewing at NJA should bear in mind that the current pay is actually worse than the TA figures. Contract negotiations are slated to begin in Feb. I have no idea what FO wages will be in the next TA. NJW

 

[GVFlyer]

...but for those interested in a look at FO wages in the outyears...

NJW

That's military procurement speak. Are you former military are did hubby practice his presentations at home when he had that non-flying billet?

Cordially,

GV

 

[netjetwife]

Is that where I got that? LOL Actually, he wrote his Master's thesis on pilot retention in the AF and I helped him with proofreading and editing. Likewise, with those briefings on the same subject. I guess it rubbed off on me... NJW

 

[Hawkered]

Netjet Wife,

Unfortunately, I don't agree with you again about your new theories on upgrade time. Yes it's true, I upgraded as soon as I got here and put the entire company on captain's pay. No, the union didn't offer support. They said I would get fired!

Well, back to here and now.

We have aircraft turning into very expensive lawn ornaments right now. Campaigns like yours are now discouraging new-hires from choosing our company and we have no extra crews for either the Citation X or Ultra.

Slowly this will get even worse with Part 91K and the retirements within our own ranks from ex-airline pilots.

In the middle of this, Marquis has sold more cards than ever and now the new sales of the G-200, Excel and Hawker 800XP have started to get going as well. With President Bush, "in the house", we can see the depreciation schedule for new aircraft purchases continuing.

NJI sold a GV to a Euro customer and now has GIVs in Europe doing back-up.

What I'm trying to say to you is...relax! The good times are about to return. This is a fickle industry. As someone who has been flying for over twenty years, I've seen it all before. Within a year they'll be looking for experienced street captains again.

No disrespect to you, but I don't take kindly to a self-appointed spokesperson trying to hijack MY company and MY source of livelihood!!

If you and Ace don't like it, kindly leave!!

 

[GVFlyer]

...he wrote his Master's thesis on pilot retention in the AF and I helped him with proofreading and editing. Likewise, with those briefings on the same subject... NJW

USAF retention should be pretty good - it's the best flying in the world and in today's market the pay ain't bad. For instance, pay and allowances for a 12 year O-4 is $86,496.36 or $104,402,84 for a 20 year O-5. This is exclusive of hostile fire pay, the combat zone tax exclusion, and the family separation allowance. Plus the retention bonuses are not too bad:

5 yr -$125,000
Remain to 20 yrs - $250,000
Remain to 25 yrs - $375,000

GV

 

[Hawkered]

Maybe he should go back there!

 

[El Chupacabra]

Love to go back. But they are really looking for folks 20-30 years younger. Uhhh, and in my case 20 to 30 lbs lighter.

 

[Hawkered]

30 lbs, I could get that off you in three weeks!

 

[XTW]

but for those interested in a look at FO wages in the outyears, here they are: Year 1=$39K Then we see your yearly increases up to Year 5=$44,040. So to recap--FO wages begin at $33,500 and ..... NJW

Am I missing something or is "Year 1" not equal to "FO wages begin"? Just trying to sort out the apparent descrepencies. Obviously 39 does not equal 33.5.

 

[Hawkered]

More of that fuzzy math that comes with sermons from on high. I'm not sure what we will end up with, or when, but I know we'll be in the hole when this is all over.

The entire board must be scratching their heads and mumbling, "But, they seem like a smart bunch of pilots. They don't seem to know anything about the time-value of money".

We're all about $55 k in the hole now from where we could have taken a raise of nearly 30%, six months before the contract became amendable.

Our MEC decided not to take it!!

 

[netjetwife]

Unfortunately, I don't agree with you again about your new theories on upgrade time. Yes it's true, I upgraded as soon as I got here and put the entire company on captain's pay.


Campaigns like yours are now discouraging new-hires from choosing our company and we have no extra crews for either the Citation X or Ultra.
Slowly this will get even worse with Part 91K and the retirements within our own ranks from ex-airline pilots.

What I'm trying to say to you is...relax! The good times are about to return. This is a fickle industry. As someone who has been flying for over twenty years, I've seen it all before. Within a year they'll be looking for experienced street captains again.

No disrespect to you, but I don't take kindly to a self-appointed spokesperson trying to hijack MY company and MY source of livelihood!!

If you and Ace don't like it, kindly leave!!

Hawk, any reader comparing our posts will clearly see that I have offered FACTUAL information while you are viewing things thru "rose-colored glasses" and talking about the good ole days. What year were you hired? Actually, it matters not. That is only useful for letting one know what HAS happen, not what is CURRENTLY taking place.

Campaigns? I beg to differ; I was answering questions. The hiring situation, like the failed (by 82%!) TA, speaks for itself. Pilots will "vote" for or against the job based on the facts. The issue of low pay turns away many potential new hires and the long wait to upgrade compounds the problem. When faced w/a wait, people ask those already in line 2 questions--how long have you been standing here and how fast is the line moving? (They just want the facts; they can make up their own minds about joining you or going elsewhere). Here are the answers: There are about 355 pilots ahead of my husband in the upgrade line. Counting from the back of the line, there are around 570. This is based on the seniority # of the most junior pilot to win a PIC bid award to date. When I asked him how fast the line will move my husband said, "10 Captain Upgrades per month. This is a very generous assumption. We have not even been close to that in the nearly 2 years I have been here." He then went on to explain the problem of Captains getting typed in different planes... Waiting wouldn't be such a problem if the pay were better.

This is the information potential new hires are looking for, and that my husband is qualified to answer. He has been standing in the line for 22 months and he has watched it closely. Btw, did I mention that he had been the personell manager in charge of Officers' Assignments for Europe? (An aside to GV here--that was his non-flying billet/3yr staff tour). So he looks at all of this w/an experienced eye and tells me:"This company seems to desire a 60-40 Captain to FO ratio. That means to have the number 2000 seniority number upgraded to Captain, there has to be 3333 pilots employed here. That means we would have to hire over 1300 pilots. At a hiring rate of 50 pilots per month, that would take over 24 months (2 years). Of course, sales would have to support that hiring rate". This brings up a good interview question! What is the current hiring rate, in addition to the current upgrade rate?

No disrespect to you, Hawkered, but MY family is just as affected by the situation at NJA, as you are. And in the area of upgrading, more so. "Ace" (your name for him) happens to like the job, but like many other NJ pilots he has a family to support and is looking for a career--not a hobby.

XTW, the defeated TA had 2 FO payscales. The lesser of the 2 was for 90% of the pilots; the "higher" one (relatively speaking) was the the top 10% in seniority. I was quoting the TA.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Upgrade time for a new-hire is a mystery. I am imagine it would be a long time.

However, there was a time when it seemed like there was a bid every week for 20 captain slots. They couldn't fill them fast enough. This led to forced upgrades and hiring street captains. This wasn't that long ago and those days may well come back again.

There's a fact for ya.

I just completed my fourth year here. In the first three we doubled in size.

 

[netjetwife]

Sctt, I've heard that a number of times--have no doubt that it's true--but would like to know exactly when those "glory days" were. Did you witness those things personally, or was it more than 4 years ago? I'm trying to understand the NJ timeline. Do you know what year(s) that was? Thanks.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

I started in November 2000. At that time anyone could upgrade whenever they wanted to or felt comfortable doing so. The only fleet you couldn't hold captain in right away was the Falcon.

This lasted for at least a year. It was sometime during 2001 I believe that they got so desperate for captains that they hired some right off the street.

I switched from the Ultra to the Hawker in the spring of 2002. I was still seat locked at the time. They released seat locks when they couldn't fill the position otherwise. I had bid for the Citation 7 and the Hawker 800 and was awarded both. I had my choice.

That was about the last time I recall that seat locks were released and it wasn't long after that the bids started drying up almost completely.