Netjets Ain Article

[bizjet737]

No, a scab would be someone that is hired by NJ, crosses the picket line, and begins flying the NJ aircraft that are parked due to the strike.

I hope that clears it up for you.

actually, that's not totally correct. yes, flying a netjets a/c (including ejm, nji, njla if they fly any netjets trips) would put you on a scab list. also, any flying done by subcontractors, those pilots will also be put on the scab list.

 

[h25b]

also, any flying done by subcontractors, those pilots will also be put on the scab list.

I doubt it... At least if you're referring to the outfits doing "sell-offs"...

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

I doubt it... At least if you're referring to the outfits doing "sell-offs"...

I agree. That would be like saying American Airlines' pilots are scabs when Untited is on strike and American honors United's pax tickets.

Ace

 

[miles otoole]

I agree. That would be like saying American Airlines' pilots are scabs when Untited is on strike and American honors United's pax tickets.

Ace

Deleted-a bit of gray area

 

[niteflyr]

Don't be fooled...

Anyone operating a Netjets flight while the pilots are striking is considered crossing the picket line and will be considered a scab. It has been that way in the past and this would be no different. No it is not like going to a different carrier and them being scabs, I don't even see how you can compare your United and American scenario. That would apply if we were trying to call Options or Flex pilots scabs for operating while we strike, which we obviously aren't. We are talking about other pilots working for the company while we are in a stoppage, yes a sub-contractor would fall into this category.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Yes they will be considered scabs and placed on the scablist. No problem if the end of the line for you is flying at a 135 charter operation.

 

[h25b]

Anyone operating a Netjets flight while the pilots are striking is considered crossing the picket line and will be considered a scab. It has been that way in the past and this would be no different. No it is not like going to a different carrier and them being scabs, I don't even see how you can compare your United and American scenario. That would apply if we were trying to call Options or Flex pilots scabs for operating while we strike, which we obviously aren't. We are talking about other pilots working for the company while we are in a stoppage, yes a sub-contractor would fall into this category.

Whatever dude, go ahead and see it that way if you want. Our corporate a/c are on a charter certificate and we do work for Options, NetJets, and Citation Shares. I doubt VERY seriously that will change. You guys are AND SHOULD be grieving this, but to hold people like us accountable would be a HUGE mistake. There's no doubt that YOUR company is screwing with you on this one. But other people shouldn't AND WON'T be held accountable for the weaknesses of your situation.

The NetJets pilots better stop flooding corporate operations with resumes because that black-balling can AND will cut both ways. I just wouldn't recommend burning bridges when the time comes.

Remember who your friends are in this business. Doesn't matter anyway, NOT going to happen.

 

[miles otoole]

Yes they will be considered scabs and placed on the scablist. No problem if the end of the line for you is flying at a 135 charter operation.

Who's scab list? NetJets? So these scabs won't be able to be hired by NJA in the future? Doubt ALPA airlines would recognize the list. It was a fear tactic in the 70s and 80s. Not much teeth in today's economy. Tell Santulli he can't use these scabs for sell offs in the future. right.

 

[h25b]

Yes they will be considered scabs and placed on the scablist. No problem if the end of the line for you is flying at a 135 charter operation.

Those in glass houses...

I sure wouldn't want to count on making a career out of NetJets at this point (talk about a bad "end of the line"). By the way, our pilots make about twice what your crews do on the same equipment. I will gladly volunteer to be banned from working at NetJets. Where can I sign up for this?

 

[El Chupacabra]

Yes the ALPA scablist. Arrangements have already been made. Two former UAL MEC members (who submitted the names of the 1985 UAL scabs) now fly with us. Those that cross will make the list. We are direct communications with Judus Iscariot ... maintainer of the master scablist.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Anyone operating a Netjets flight while the pilots are striking is considered crossing the picket line and will be considered a scab. It has been that way in the past and this would be no different. No it is not like going to a different carrier and them being scabs, I don't even see how you can compare your United and American scenario. That would apply if we were trying to call Options or Flex pilots scabs for operating while we strike, which we obviously aren't. We are talking about other pilots working for the company while we are in a stoppage, yes a sub-contractor would fall into this category.

I don't fly charter and this doesn't directly affect my bottom line, however, you are sooooo off base. Read the FARs. A part 135 operator is not 'working' for NetJets in any way, shape or form. They are in independent operation and maintain complete operational control. Therefore, it is EXACTLY like NetJets is buying a ticket on another carrier. Yes, 135s are air carriers. Keep your anger focused. If some pilots want to come and WORK for NetJets as subs, you have a beef, this line of scare tactics just makes you look pathetic and desparate.

And everyone is right on this one, don't start trying to scare other OPERATORS, you never know when you might want to get an interview.

Ace

 

[niteflyr]

Maybe some research into the UPS/IBT strike would be helpful to some of you. I was not saying or implying that flying subcontract work right now is considered scabbing, it is not and you are correct we are grieving that fact with the company. I was only referring to the subcontracting in the event we do end up on strike. As for banned from NJA, no we are referring to a much larger scablist, not just an NJA list. As for cutting both ways, I never have and never will be looking for a corporate gig...

 

[h25b]

As for cutting both ways, I never have and never will be looking for a corporate gig...

If you guys don't get a better contract there will be a ton of your F.O.'s that will be...

 

[El Chupacabra]

Therefore, it is EXACTLY like NetJets is buying a ticket on another carrier. Yes, 135s are air carriers. Keep your anger focused. If some pilots want to come and WORK for NetJets as subs, you have a beef, this line of scare tactics just makes you look pathetic and desparate.

And everyone is right on this one, don't start trying to scare other OPERATORS, you never know when you might want to get an interview.

Ace

No its not.

Its like American going on strike then chartering planes from United to fly their trips. The pilots flying the struck work on chartered aircraft would be scabs.

At 59 I am not worried about interviews. This is last stop.

 

[holden1]

Will NetJets really let this happen?

Folks - some extremely interesting posts. What I can't figure is why NetJets would let this happen. Everything that they "pitch" to the affluent owner or corporation is about quality and safety. If they were to have to heavily subcontract out wouldn't that really tarnish their position?

It strikes me that the union will gain concessions here but I cannot possibly see NetJets actually letting a formal strike happen.

 

[El Chupacabra]

You might be right but the unconfirmed rumour is they have put charter vendors on notice to ramp up for increased selloffs in case of strike. Fact or Fiction it is not clear.

 

[h25b]

At 59 I am not worried about interviews. This is last stop.

That's good for you, but it sounds like the same old union scare crap (and yes I have been in one)... When the new contract comes I'm sure people like yourselves will have won out and will throw the junior guys to the wolves.

So my point remains, this IS NOT the airlines..

 

[2000flyer]

As for cutting both ways, I never have and never will be looking for a corporate gig...

Now there is a career limiting statement. I take it you mean it's "Airline or Bust?"

So, if you're on the Teamsters scab list, does that mean you can't get a job in any Teamster operation?

 

[h25b]

You might be right but the unconfirmed rumour is they have put charter vendors on notice to ramp up for increased selloffs in case of strike. Fact or Fiction it is not clear.

I can tell you that our certificate holder HAS NOT been told this. For the record, they are a BIG vendor. So I would say this is fiction. But we have seen a significant increase as of late with all fractional business.

By the way for you "scab" branding baffoons... Just what do you think would happen if you guys strike AND there were no sell-off's ??? Well, the owner would simply call these charter operators directly to charter their trip (after leaving NetJets program ENTIRELY/PERMANENTLY). This is most likely exactly what they were doing BEFORE they joined NetJets anyway. The end result is the same. The only variable is how big of morons you make out of yourselves in the process.

 

[ultrarunner]

Any NJ owner is free to spend their money as they wish. And we are evaluating such business opportunities.

Should we do any of this flying, this will simply be a charter flight for a charter customer. It's as simple as that.

No different than if the NJ owner buys a ticket on an airline or buys passage on a charter.

You bozos that brand anyone flying around an NJ owner that is strike stranded, a scab, is just not in touch with the big picture (or even the definition of scab for that matter).

So, let me repeat myself:

A scab is someone that crosses YOUR picket line and takes YOUR JOB. Simple as that.

 

[h25b]

Judas confirms you go on this list:

Nothing I saw on that document relative to this situation at all. Thanks anyway though, I haven't seen this list for a while.

"A Scab is a person doing what you'd be doing if you weren't on strike.."

Nope not us... We have been doing the same thing all along, just more lately thanks to NetJets inept management and YOUR weak labor agreement...

"A Scab takes your job, a job he could not get under normal circumstances..."

Hardly the case here...

"He can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputes.."

Please..

Saying it over and over again doesn't make it true. I'll continue to enjoy the "end of the line" doing what I do... I think you're getting me wrong, I'm on your side. IT IS A RIDCULOUS SITUATION. I hope your grievance works out for you. The only diference between us is my job security IS NOT directly threatened. Just seems wierd to me that some of you are starting to make enemies this early in the game.

Really folks, are you guys going to spread out through the country like Junior G-Men at EVERY GA airport in the country searching for struck work ??? I have the choice to refuse charter that our department is offered. I would think this would be the time to make allies.

O.K. kids, get back to the playground and OFF dad's computer.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Any NJ owner is free to spend their money as they wish.
.

If you get paid directly by the owner yes. If you get your trip assigned through CMH or LUK and your payment through NJ INC or EJM that is another story.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

:

If you want to reach the NetJets owner population with the legitimate aspects of your grievances, informational picketing is absolutely not the way to do it.

Anything to do with picketting, demonstrations, potential confrontational debates, is the sort of thing people such as NetJets owners will avoid like a disease.

You are setting yourselves up to get a lot of negative attention from the people you want to recruit!

Actually, you are speaking from managements perspective. Management has no interest in having thier customers aviod them like a disease.

But if a companies interest are not in line with your interest, what does one do? IOW, if the company won't pay you properly, then your interest are not aligned. So what do you do to "force" the company to see your perspective?

You picket. This is where unions get a bad name, but it is all politics. And the blame game begins...

Is it the companies fault for not negotiating in good faith with the pilots or is it the pilots fault for informational picketing and embarrassing/scaring their customers away.

The UAL Summer of Love is a prime example. Sure the pilots put a bad taste in everyones mouth, but they got what they wanted; industry leading CBA (and no one cared about them except themselves) You could say it was ALL the UAL pilots fault but really, it takes two.

So should the NJ pilots just cave and say, ok ok fine, you won't work with us, so we'll threaten to picket, but we really won't cause we don't want to scare the companies (our) customers.....

Acrochik and CatYaak are simply taking the company position and that won't get the pilots a better contract and that is what they want...isn't it?

It is complex. Don't try and argue it simply black and white.

 

[holden1]

It is complex. Don't try and argue it simply black and white.

Good points. However, it strikes me as simply black and white. I was just looking at the NetJets site and should a strike happen, it will clearly go against the entire message that they send owners and potential customers alike. I cannot believe that NJ would just let this happen and not reach some form of agreement ahead of any pickets/strikes.

If I buy a fractional share because I believe I will be on a NJ aircraft along with well-trained NJ pilot, what happens when I start to receive 135 aircraft all the time? I may accept a 135 a/c here and there during heavy days, but no way am I going to buy into a fractional program with such an up-front commitment and then receive 135 aircraft. If I want that, I'll stick with one of my local mid-size operators...

??

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Good points. However, it strikes me as simply black and white. I was just looking at the NetJets site and should a strike happen, it will clearly go against the entire message that they send owners and potential customers alike. I cannot believe that NJ would just let this happen and not reach some form of agreement ahead of any pickets/strikes.

If I buy a fractional share because I believe I will be on a NJ aircraft along with well-trained NJ pilot, what happens when I start to receive 135 aircraft all the time? I may accept a 135 a/c here and there during heavy days, but no way am I going to buy into a fractional program with such an up-front commitment and then receive 135 aircraft. If I want that, I'll stick with one of my local mid-size operators...

??

These expressed concerns are those of managment and thier customers, not pilots. If the pilots had a place at the table of operational control then their concerns might be the same.

One might argue that pilots had better be concerned with thier customers, but really that is managments job description. Of course pilots will treat customers well once the customer enters the pilots job description.

This is a common misconception of many pilots (who are used to be in control); pilots do not run companies. They operate equipment, like a dump truck driver or backhoe operator.

Since management is in control and they have decided to control wages/work rules at the pilots expenses or disagreement, what avenues do the pilots have?

IOW, if the company is more concerned with thier interests and not addressing the pilots, what is the next step for the pilots? Keep in mind pilots (read labor groups) do have legal rights under federal law.

 

[holden1]

These expressed concerns are those of managment and thier customers, not pilots. If the pilots had a place at the table of operational control then their concerns might be the same.

One might argue that pilots had better be concerned with thier customers, but really that is managments job description. Of course pilots will treat customers well once the customer enters the pilots job description.

This is a common misconception of many pilots (who are used to be in control); pilots do not run companies. They operate equipment, like a dump truck driver or backhoe operator.

Since management is in control and they have decided to control wages/work rules at the pilots expenses or disagreement, what avenues do the pilots have?

IOW, if the company is more concerned with thier interests and not addressing the pilots, what is the next step for the pilots? Keep in mind pilots (read labor groups) do have legal rights under federal law.

I am actually thinking about this from a Pilot perspective - NJA would be insane to let a strike happen. It has too much to lose against the way it has positioned itself in the marketplace. Hence, I believe some form of resolution will happen prior to a sfull-blown strike.

 

[Spooky 1]

NetJets scab

I know a person who had a very responsible position at NetJets until late last year. A name appears on the aforementioned scab list that is the same as his. EAL 85 strike. There is no SS#, no DOB, and no other identifying data to go along with this name. I believe that the scab was a B727 S/O down in MIA. I have to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, but I do wonder if they are one in the same. Yea, I could just ask him but there are other factors in his favor and I would not want to sulley his name or reputation if this is not true. The fact is I don't want it to be true but the rumor has floated around off and on for some time now.

Is there anyone out there in NetJets that has any idea how many SCABS are, or have been employed in your operation? If you have something that is inappropriate for the public forum please PM me.

Thanks,

 

[Corona]

Anyone operating a Netjets flight while the pilots are striking is considered crossing the picket line and will be considered a scab. It has been that way in the past and this would be no different. No it is not like going to a different carrier and them being scabs, I don't even see how you can compare your United and American scenario. That would apply if we were trying to call Options or Flex pilots scabs for operating while we strike, which we obviously aren't. We are talking about other pilots working for the company while we are in a stoppage, yes a sub-contractor would fall into this category.

I think you guys need to clarify your intentions here: Are you suggesting that pilots who work for a NON-UNION 135 carrier should refuse to fly struck (NJA pax) work?

If they do, are you going to provide a paycheck to them when they get FIRED?

So, their choice is:

A) Get fired for refusing to do the work for which they were hired (This also means they will NOT get unemployment). Or,
B) They will be put on a scab list for life at any and all unionized carriers, but be able to keep their current, crappy 135 job.

Seems awfully generous of you to screw over your fellow pilots.

I sincerely hope I have misread your intentions here. I had at one point wanted to send my resume to NetJets, but if dragging your fellow professionals into a fight they can only lose is your strategy, then I have seriously misjudged you.

C

 

[netjetwife]

I, also, find the discussion interesting and would like to make a few comments. All options are being considered; they have 2 billboards up now. The 2nd one just went up in a highly visible location at TEB. Informational picketing on a grand scale, if you will. It was so admired by the pilots that they are selling polo shirts with the image of the billboard plastered on the back Bumper stickers will be offered soon.

I don't doubt that many of the NJ px/owners routinely work 14 hour days, themselves. That should not dismiss the possibility that they will be concerned when they learn that their pilots are doing the same. "Flying" a desk for 14 hours is far less dangerous than piloting a plane that long. I think they will see the difference.

As thought-provoking as it is, the strike talk is getting a bit ahead of the situation. The NJ pilots have yet to take their strike vote. A high percentage of yes votes (remember the failed TA was voted down by 82% and the SU MEC voted in by 90%) may well be the wake-up call that the company needs. They are concerned about their golden reputation and will be (one could surmise) loathe to see it tarnished.

 

[h25b]

I know a person who had a very responsible position at NetJets until late last year. A name appears on the aforementioned scab list that is the same as his. EAL 85 strike. There is no SS#, no DOB, and no other identifying data to go along with this name. I believe that the scab was a B727 S/O down in MIA. I have to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, but I do wonder if they are one in the same. Yea, I could just ask him but there are other factors in his favor and I would not want to sulley his name or reputation if this is not true. The fact is I don't want it to be true but the rumor has floated around off and on for some time now.

Is there anyone out there in NetJets that has any idea how many SCABS are, or have been employed in your operation? If you have something that is inappropriate for the public forum please PM me.

Thanks,

There's one guy listed on the "scab" list that is supposedly a NetJets B737 Capt. as well. Just browsing through the list I believe a saw a couple other NetJet pilots listed. What's the union's view of this..???...

I still continue to read/interpret the "scab" list posted and can't figure out how one (using the criteria listed) could judge a "sell-off" as a scab... Enlighten me, I really want the answer to this one. Give me the heads up, because if this is serious I plan on briefing my home office about this situation.

Could someone give me the contact information for NetJet's Pilot Union.???... I just talked to a NetJet's crew about this a little while ago and they don't seem to take anything against the charter outfits. They were just aiming the guns at their management (as it should be).