Netjets Ain Article

[Grizz]

Hey Griz, I guess I struggle to see everyones logic that a recess will hurt NJA. I guess I just don't see it.

Check your PMs.

 

[2000flyer]

I’m curious. What, exactly, would be the thought process behind an “informational picket?” What are you going to say, “The company is making me work too hard?” “The company isn’t paying me enough?” I just don’t get it. And, where are you going to picket, at an FBO where a majority of pilot’s who are spending their 14-hour day there are going to give you sympathy? Many of those same pilot’s who, at one time or another, for whatever reason, felt threatened by your companies very existence. Some who may have been displaced by their former employer selling their fleet and joining NetJets are going to “feel your pain?”

I’m not trying to start and argument, nor become the focus of your ire. However, from an outsider looking in, this has become a serious pi$$ing contest between management and pilots. For years pilots have wanted more pay. Company said no (through contract negotiations). Pilot’s use public forums (flightinfo.com) to “end-around” company by urging the rigging bids so junior pilots can get the upgrades, thus increasing pay to others who are not upgrading. Company, through Subpart K, requires pilot’s to wait out their duty day at the airport rather than paying a hotel to house them. Rumors of strike begin to circulate. If this isn’t a dog chasing its tail in a vicious circle, I don’t know what is.

Sadly, I see no good coming of this from either side, or at least much worse before it gets better. Nor, were I you, expect a whole lot of sympathy on your “informational picket.” Remember ladies and gentlemen, the public often views a “pilot” as one who is paid huge sums of money for working a couple weeks a month. Even today, my passengers get a stunned (you know the one… “they pay you for that???”) look on their faces when they find out that all we do is sit at the FBO for hours a day while they’re out bustin’ their butts working all day. Seeing you on the picket line complaining you had to be on duty 14-hours today isn’t going to register a whole bunch of sympathy or support.

While I feel you all deserve a raise, as I said before, I see this getting much uglier before the roses begin to bloom. I just hope they don’t bloom on the graves of your employment.

With sincerity and respect.

2000Flyer

 

[Fracster]

Were not asking for your sympathy or understanding.

 

[CatYaaak]

And yes, I had to pull out my old Labor Relations book from college to look some of those dates up.

Wait a second, are you saying you actually took courses in college that required getting a "Labor Relations" textbook?...and worse...you actually kept it instead doing what normal people do with worthless junk like that; sell it to someone in the following year's class of dummies for beer money?

That's just plain weird.

But then again, so is "informational picketing" outside FBO's. Nobody who'd be walking into one would care.

 

[netjetwife]

I beg to differ, but that won't surprise you...

I think that the owners walking in would care that their pilots were working 70 hours --or more!--in a week. How rested could they be? That 14 hour days are considered normal, might make them uneasy, when viewed in light of recent accidents. Being made aware of the low wages these same pilots are paid, just might have them questioning the way their management fees are being spent. The whole purpose of informational picketing is to educate those that are affected by the contract dispute. Clearly, that would be the owners and given the amount of money they have invested, it is not unreasonable to think that they would, indeed, be interested.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

The Railway Labor Act requires that the NMB authorize a proffer of binding arbitration. If either side declines the binding arbitration, a 30 day cooling of period starts followed by the right to engage in self-help. The NMD has sole discretion as to proffer arbitration or not. Without the NMB authorizing the proffer of binding arbitration and with the suspension of mediated negotiations, the parties can be left in a "recess" mode to operate under the status quo provisions of the RLA and the current contract.

The RLA was the first major labor act (It became law in 1926) but it had some serious limitations built into it to protect interstate commerce. The Wagner Act passed in 1935 authorized a much more fair set of labor laws but some folks were left out of it's protections - the biggest group being folks already covered under the RLA.

That's where we are as pilots. If we are unionized, we fall under the RLA and we must play by its rules. It's definitely not a perfect playing field, but for me, it's a hell of a lot better than being an at-will employee in this industry. (And yes - I have done both)

The current NMB is decidedly pro-company and it puts the employees at a serious disadvantage during negotiations. That's also one of the reasons that the current contract talks have stalled for so long at NetJets. It's only now that 91K is seriously impacting their ability to manage crews and to deliver product under our current CBA, that management feels the need to actually bargain with us. Add to that fact, the majority of pilots involved in this fight are at least in 4th year pay or higher, we are in a stronger position to weather the current storm. Had NetJets been really smart they would have moved to impasse two years ago when a lot of guys were broke. As it stands right now, a recess will hurt NJA much more than it will hurt the pilots.

Grizy, as a pilot of a corporate jet, I have been quite interested in the ups and downs of both fractional and charter. In this vein, I have attempted to keep abreast of the goings-on at NetJets and the like. I have seen alot of opinions, but few that were educated and scientific. Not that you should care what anyone else thinks, but your posts are obviously quite thoughtful and succinct. One question I have always had when I have wished an employer to give me more help or money, is if it will make my position less stable. I remember a flight department in my back yard (TEB) that had sooooo much overhead that each flight hour in the company GIII cost over $22,000. Even though they had more money than you-know-who, they were smart folks and closed the department. The question: can NetJets afford to pay industry standard wages? Can they survive using pilots more civilly (Lord knows you work WAY harder than I do)? I know Europe has hurt, but even without that, how do the numbers really pan out?



Ace

 

[Grizz]

Ace -

The short answer to your question is an unquestionable yes. The market will easily bear any increase in Monthly Management Fees we need to cover our requested wages and working conditions.

NetJets has made it clear that we need to hire hundreds of pilots this year. With our aircraft delivery schedule, that hiring trend will continue or even escalate in the next few years. All of our competitors pay their pilots more than we are paid. If our wages go up significantly and we need to hire hundreds of pilots, our competitors will be forced to raise their pay in order to retain pilots that they've spent a considerable amount of money training.

Lastly, the amount of waste that occurs here because of decisions made at Bridgeway is truly astonishing. A properly motivated pilot force with the power to avert some of that waste could easily pay for everything just with the savings from that alone.

We have a fairly diverse and well-educated pilot force. The overwhelming consensus amongst us is that a company that continues to order the numbers of aircraft that NetJets does and buys buildings and hangars at numerous locations around the country is not in dire financial straights. They have the ability to pay a reasonable wage and still make more money than Creusus. We just have to force them to do the right thing.

 

[NJAowner]

Pickets`

I have no study to back up the facts here but:

Most NetJets owners probably spend less than 5 minutes at the FBO, and 4:45 of that is going to and from the restroom or waiting for others to return from the restroom. Informational picketing at the FBO may not be that effective.

If the plane is 1 hour late for any reason, Owner Services call the owner (usually on the cell phone). Given 2 choices, (1) wait at the FBO, or (2) drink, eat, drink, shop, drink or find something else to do other than sit in the lounge at the FBO, waht do you think most owners do. We show up at the FBO, hit the head, find the pilots and leave.

I have yet to find the FBO where I will spend time and interest in an informational picket.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Grizby,

I'm certain that you have already looked deeply into this issue from many angles. I can't disagree with any part of your reply, except the statement:

The overwhelming consensus amongst us is that a company that continues to order the numbers of aircraft that NetJets does and buys buildings and hangars at numerous locations around the country is not in dire financial straights.

You should never use someone’s liabilities or spending to infer that they are doing well (Enron, Worldcom, etc). Look for their assets or positive cash flow.

And as for NJowner's post, I don't buy it. I've seen plenty of NJ pax standing in the FBOs, and how embarrassing to be taking some business associates to 'your' plane and have to cross an 'informational' picket line. Ouch!

Ace

 

[CatYaaak]

And as for NJowner's post, I don't buy it. I've seen plenty of NJ pax standing in the FBOs, and how embarrassing to be taking some business associates to 'your' plane and have to cross an 'informational' picket line. Ouch!

Ace

Real smart....embarrass the owners while they're engaged in business affairs or annoy/encroach on them while they're paying top $$$ for private ones. No doubt they'll have forgotton all about it when it's time to renew their contracts (not). And because what NetJets offers is SO unique (not), like bargain-hunting airline pax searching the web for the cheapest fares (not) they have no other alternatives than to live with whatever hassles the pilots forced them to endure (not). They are a captive audience (not) and besides, the vast majority being pro-"collectivized labor" in spirit (not) anyway, the owners will no doubt rally to your cause (not).

And what would NJAowner know about owners or the realm of private aviation?.....after all, he's "just" an owner who's successful enough to access and engage in it...ultimately paying the bills... and given that skewed perspective, he could sure learn a lot about himself if he would only listen to ex-airline and ex-military pilots about what motivates people who fly in the cabins of business aircraft.

Personally though, I'm all for the picketing and a strike. If a strike does occur, it'll be a perfect opportunity to take a few years off from flying and get into corporate aircraft sales and consulting setting up new, small flight departments. Retire early. Join the Red Bull racing circuit for fun when I'm not skiing or dicking around on a new, Wyoming ranch, and in my spare time (for those dynamite fishermen using their unemployment benefits to go back to college), write a texbook entitled "Labor Relations; Obvious Things Not To Do". I'll autograph a copy (not a free one, though) for Griz.

So go for it guys, get in their face! Rah Rah! Owners are just airline pax with fatter wallets with no...um...Options. You're unique and highly-skilled professionals doing things nobody has ever done before, so don't settle for anything less than 200K/year, 10-hour duty days, 4/8 schedules, and 5 gateways per state.

Is there any way I can help?