Netjets Ain Article

[Ace-of-the-Base]

The Railway Labor Act requires that the NMB authorize a proffer of binding arbitration. If either side declines the binding arbitration, a 30 day cooling of period starts followed by the right to engage in self-help. The NMD has sole discretion as to proffer arbitration or not. Without the NMB authorizing the proffer of binding arbitration and with the suspension of mediated negotiations, the parties can be left in a "recess" mode to operate under the status quo provisions of the RLA and the current contract.

The RLA was the first major labor act (It became law in 1926) but it had some serious limitations built into it to protect interstate commerce. The Wagner Act passed in 1935 authorized a much more fair set of labor laws but some folks were left out of it's protections - the biggest group being folks already covered under the RLA.

That's where we are as pilots. If we are unionized, we fall under the RLA and we must play by its rules. It's definitely not a perfect playing field, but for me, it's a hell of a lot better than being an at-will employee in this industry. (And yes - I have done both)

The current NMB is decidedly pro-company and it puts the employees at a serious disadvantage during negotiations. That's also one of the reasons that the current contract talks have stalled for so long at NetJets. It's only now that 91K is seriously impacting their ability to manage crews and to deliver product under our current CBA, that management feels the need to actually bargain with us. Add to that fact, the majority of pilots involved in this fight are at least in 4th year pay or higher, we are in a stronger position to weather the current storm. Had NetJets been really smart they would have moved to impasse two years ago when a lot of guys were broke. As it stands right now, a recess will hurt NJA much more than it will hurt the pilots.

Grizy, as a pilot of a corporate jet, I have been quite interested in the ups and downs of both fractional and charter. In this vein, I have attempted to keep abreast of the goings-on at NetJets and the like. I have seen alot of opinions, but few that were educated and scientific. Not that you should care what anyone else thinks, but your posts are obviously quite thoughtful and succinct. One question I have always had when I have wished an employer to give me more help or money, is if it will make my position less stable. I remember a flight department in my back yard (TEB) that had sooooo much overhead that each flight hour in the company GIII cost over $22,000. Even though they had more money than you-know-who, they were smart folks and closed the department. The question: can NetJets afford to pay industry standard wages? Can they survive using pilots more civilly (Lord knows you work WAY harder than I do)? I know Europe has hurt, but even without that, how do the numbers really pan out?



Ace

 

[Grizz]

Ace -

The short answer to your question is an unquestionable yes. The market will easily bear any increase in Monthly Management Fees we need to cover our requested wages and working conditions.

NetJets has made it clear that we need to hire hundreds of pilots this year. With our aircraft delivery schedule, that hiring trend will continue or even escalate in the next few years. All of our competitors pay their pilots more than we are paid. If our wages go up significantly and we need to hire hundreds of pilots, our competitors will be forced to raise their pay in order to retain pilots that they've spent a considerable amount of money training.

Lastly, the amount of waste that occurs here because of decisions made at Bridgeway is truly astonishing. A properly motivated pilot force with the power to avert some of that waste could easily pay for everything just with the savings from that alone.

We have a fairly diverse and well-educated pilot force. The overwhelming consensus amongst us is that a company that continues to order the numbers of aircraft that NetJets does and buys buildings and hangars at numerous locations around the country is not in dire financial straights. They have the ability to pay a reasonable wage and still make more money than Creusus. We just have to force them to do the right thing.

 

[NJAowner]

Pickets`

I have no study to back up the facts here but:

Most NetJets owners probably spend less than 5 minutes at the FBO, and 4:45 of that is going to and from the restroom or waiting for others to return from the restroom. Informational picketing at the FBO may not be that effective.

If the plane is 1 hour late for any reason, Owner Services call the owner (usually on the cell phone). Given 2 choices, (1) wait at the FBO, or (2) drink, eat, drink, shop, drink or find something else to do other than sit in the lounge at the FBO, waht do you think most owners do. We show up at the FBO, hit the head, find the pilots and leave.

I have yet to find the FBO where I will spend time and interest in an informational picket.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Grizby,

I'm certain that you have already looked deeply into this issue from many angles. I can't disagree with any part of your reply, except the statement:

The overwhelming consensus amongst us is that a company that continues to order the numbers of aircraft that NetJets does and buys buildings and hangars at numerous locations around the country is not in dire financial straights.

You should never use someone’s liabilities or spending to infer that they are doing well (Enron, Worldcom, etc). Look for their assets or positive cash flow.

And as for NJowner's post, I don't buy it. I've seen plenty of NJ pax standing in the FBOs, and how embarrassing to be taking some business associates to 'your' plane and have to cross an 'informational' picket line. Ouch!

Ace

 

[CatYaaak]

And as for NJowner's post, I don't buy it. I've seen plenty of NJ pax standing in the FBOs, and how embarrassing to be taking some business associates to 'your' plane and have to cross an 'informational' picket line. Ouch!

Ace

Real smart....embarrass the owners while they're engaged in business affairs or annoy/encroach on them while they're paying top $$$ for private ones. No doubt they'll have forgotton all about it when it's time to renew their contracts (not). And because what NetJets offers is SO unique (not), like bargain-hunting airline pax searching the web for the cheapest fares (not) they have no other alternatives than to live with whatever hassles the pilots forced them to endure (not). They are a captive audience (not) and besides, the vast majority being pro-"collectivized labor" in spirit (not) anyway, the owners will no doubt rally to your cause (not).

And what would NJAowner know about owners or the realm of private aviation?.....after all, he's "just" an owner who's successful enough to access and engage in it...ultimately paying the bills... and given that skewed perspective, he could sure learn a lot about himself if he would only listen to ex-airline and ex-military pilots about what motivates people who fly in the cabins of business aircraft.

Personally though, I'm all for the picketing and a strike. If a strike does occur, it'll be a perfect opportunity to take a few years off from flying and get into corporate aircraft sales and consulting setting up new, small flight departments. Retire early. Join the Red Bull racing circuit for fun when I'm not skiing or dicking around on a new, Wyoming ranch, and in my spare time (for those dynamite fishermen using their unemployment benefits to go back to college), write a texbook entitled "Labor Relations; Obvious Things Not To Do". I'll autograph a copy (not a free one, though) for Griz.

So go for it guys, get in their face! Rah Rah! Owners are just airline pax with fatter wallets with no...um...Options. You're unique and highly-skilled professionals doing things nobody has ever done before, so don't settle for anything less than 200K/year, 10-hour duty days, 4/8 schedules, and 5 gateways per state.

Is there any way I can help?

 

[dime line]

Wow Cat Yack you sound like you have all the right answers! So I guess while your on strike you will make your Millions, go for it man.

Your an idiot

 

[CatYaaak]

Wow Cat Yack you sound like you have all the right answers! So I guess while your on strike you will make your Millions, go for it man.

Your an idiot

Where I am, unions aren't even legal. But enough said... it would be another form of folly to respond to someone who can't even figure out when to use contractions. Typos are one thing, but twice in two sentences out of three? Yikes.

 

[AcroChik]

Informational Picketting

I do not work at NetJets. I do not know every detail of the historical and painful dispute between my fellow pilots and management. But I do know one thing, and I know it well:

If you want to reach the NetJets owner population with the legitimate aspects of your grievances, informational picketing is absolutely not the way to do it.

Anything to do with picketting, demonstrations, potential confrontational debates, is the sort of thing people such as NetJets owners will avoid like a disease.

You are setting yourselves up to get a lot of negative attention from the people you want to recruit!

Why not reach out to them in the forums and style they best understand?

Magazines such as Fortune, Forbes, Investors Business Daily, Variety, etc.

Have your leadership have face to face meetings with such people who are leadership figures for the NetJets ownership.

A wise man said, "Style is the man to whom you are speaking." It's a home truth.

You're not speaking to economy class passengers. You are trying to reach out to people with a highly developed sense of their own self worth as well as significant assets. You have to reach out to them as who they ARE.

The tactical execution of your strategy has to fit who your ally is, not convert them to your enemy.

I might not have my ATP yet, but I know that what I'm saying here is a fact.

Disclosure: I've attended 11 Berkshire Hathaway shareholder meetings.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

If NJ goes on strike and your company picks up their flying, are you a scab?

 

[semperfido]

the ownwers could care less about yout your problems

 

[CatYaaak]

I do not work at NetJets. I do not know every detail of the historical and painful dispute between my fellow pilots and management. But I do know one thing, and I know it well:

If you want to reach the NetJets owner population with the legitimate aspects of your grievances, informational picketing is absolutely not the way to do it.

Anything to do with picketting, demonstrations, potential confrontational debates, is the sort of thing people such as NetJets owners will avoid like a disease.

You are setting yourselves up to get a lot of negative attention from the people you want to recruit!

Why not reach out to them in the forums and style they best understand?

Magazines such as Fortune, Forbes, Investors Business Daily, Variety, etc.

Have your leadership have face to face meetings with such people who are leadership figures for the NetJets ownership.

A wise man said, "Style is the man to whom you are speaking." It's a home truth.

You're not speaking to economy class passengers. You are trying to reach out to people with a highly developed sense of their own self worth as well as significant assets. You have to reach out to them as who they ARE.

The tactical execution of your strategy has to fit who your ally is, not convert them to your enemy.

I might not have my ATP yet, but I know that what I'm saying here is a fact.

Disclosure: I've attended 11 Berkshire Hathaway shareholder meetings.

By far, this is the most perceptive and intelligent post on the entire subject.

 

[h25b]

I think that the owners walking in would care that their pilots were working 70 hours --or more!--in a week. How rested could they be? That 14 hour days are considered normal, might make them uneasy, when viewed in light of recent accidents. Being made aware of the low wages these same pilots are paid, just might have them questioning the way their management fees are being spent. The whole purpose of informational picketing is to educate those that are affected by the contract dispute. Clearly, that would be the owners and given the amount of money they have invested, it is not unreasonable to think that they would, indeed, be interested.

Let me remove the mystery for you lady... THEY DON'T CARE. Most of them are with NetJets because it's a cheaper alternative of something (charter, an in-house flight department, etc...) For most of the people your hubby is flying a 14 hour day is the norm.

Ignoring these fundamental facts is not helping the cause.

 

[ultrarunner]

If NJ goes on strike and your company picks up their flying, are you a scab?

No, a scab would be someone that is hired by NJ, crosses the picket line, and begins flying the NJ aircraft that are parked due to the strike.

I hope that clears it up for you.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Real smart....embarrass the owners while they're engaged in business affairs or annoy/encroach on them while they're paying top $$$ for private ones. No doubt they'll have forgotton all about it when it's time to renew their contracts (not). And because what NetJets offers is SO unique (not), like bargain-hunting airline pax searching the web for the cheapest fares (not) they have no other alternatives than to live with whatever hassles the pilots forced them to endure (not). They are a captive audience (not) and besides, the vast majority being pro-"collectivized labor" in spirit (not) anyway, the owners will no doubt rally to your cause (not).

And what would NJAowner know about owners or the realm of private aviation?.....after all, he's "just" an owner who's successful enough to access and engage in it...ultimately paying the bills... and given that skewed perspective, he could sure learn a lot about himself if he would only listen to ex-airline and ex-military pilots about what motivates people who fly in the cabins of business aircraft.

Personally though, I'm all for the picketing and a strike. If a strike does occur, it'll be a perfect opportunity to take a few years off from flying and get into corporate aircraft sales and consulting setting up new, small flight departments. Retire early. Join the Red Bull racing circuit for fun when I'm not skiing or dicking around on a new, Wyoming ranch, and in my spare time (for those dynamite fishermen using their unemployment benefits to go back to college), write a texbook entitled "Labor Relations; Obvious Things Not To Do". I'll autograph a copy (not a free one, though) for Griz.

So go for it guys, get in their face! Rah Rah! Owners are just airline pax with fatter wallets with no...um...Options. You're unique and highly-skilled professionals doing things nobody has ever done before, so don't settle for anything less than 200K/year, 10-hour duty days, 4/8 schedules, and 5 gateways per state.

Is there any way I can help?

Hey Catpuke, not many get your sense of humor and irony. I think the above post is great. Anyway, you are right. What they are doing is sh$ting where you sleep (and get your paycheck). But when dealing with employer and employee, both need each other. If you come to an impasse, you must cut off your own nose (a little), or they'll never take your resolve on the issue seriously. I've certainly been there before, and I've had it work and not work. You are very correct, it will pan out that feathers are ruffled and some 'owners' may ultimately leave. But what is improved should be far worth it, and if NetJets really is the best fractional, they will survive this small detour and arise better than ever with a well paid, well treated, happy workforce (which makes our buddy NJAowner a happy camper).



Ace

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

You are setting yourselves up to get a lot of negative attention from the people you want to recruit!

Why not reach out to them in the forums and style they best understand?

Magazines such as Fortune, Forbes, Investors Business Daily, Variety, etc.

Close, but I think you're missing the obvious. Business leaders read articles about how the working class is getting hosed all the time. The plight of the downtrodden, including nurses, doctors, etc. is part of their consciousness already. A meeting, an article in the WSJ is going to be like a f&rt in a hurricane. NetJets is by FAR the largest fractional with the largest customer base. I don't think right now the employees that are being paid half of the industry standards and working harder than any of us are (nor should be) worried right now about 'recruiting'.



Yes, you have to break some eggs, there will be fall-out. But the only way these 'owners' will get involved, is when it affects THEM. And when NJ management gets the first whiff of that, things will progress quite quickly.



Meetings, articles, editorials, will just drag this out and accomplish nothing but a workforce further divided from their company

Ace