Netjets Ain Article

[Diesel]

Don't you think we've beaten the thug thing has been beat to death. I mean really it's old and done with.

Move on.

 

[Webslinger]

I know a person who had a very responsible position at NetJets until late last year. A name appears on the aforementioned scab list that is the same as his. EAL 85 strike. There is no SS#, no DOB, and no other identifying data to go along with this name. I believe that the scab was a B727 S/O down in MIA. I have to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, but I do wonder if they are one in the same. Yea, I could just ask him but there are other factors in his favor and I would not want to sulley his name or reputation if this is not true. The fact is I don't want it to be true but the rumor has floated around off and on for some time now.

Is there anyone out there in NetJets that has any idea how many SCABS are, or have been employed in your operation? If you have something that is inappropriate for the public forum please PM me.

Thanks,

Hey Dude,................who cares?

 

[CatYaaak]

Don't you think we've beaten the thug thing has been beat to death. I mean really it's old and done with.

Move on.

Shouldn't you attend a meeting or something before deciding that?

 

[FL450]

It came and passed. Did you miss your invitation?

 

[400A]

I know a person who had a very responsible position at NetJets until late last year. A name appears on the aforementioned scab list that is the same as his. EAL 85 strike. There is no SS#, no DOB, and no other identifying data to go along with this name. I believe that the scab was a B727 S/O down in MIA. I have to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, but I do wonder if they are one in the same. Yea, I could just ask him but there are other factors in his favor and I would not want to sulley his name or reputation if this is not true. The fact is I don't want it to be true but the rumor has floated around off and on for some time now.

Is there anyone out there in NetJets that has any idea how many SCABS are, or have been employed in your operation? If you have something that is inappropriate for the public forum please PM me.

Thanks,

First of all, The Eastern Strike was in 1989, not 1985. I know this to be correct, because we walked the picket line on one day in support of family members, and my daughter was born the next.

Second of all, that would not be the first mistake or lack of defining information on that list.

 

[Daveman]

Daveman,

I'm figuring you and ultrarunner are both suffering from the same inability to read and understand the english language. Here's the post I made on this thread explaining why we haven't gone on strike yet. I'll be glad to explain any of the words you don't understand.

Daveman's Complete Guide to NMB Negotiations

It's the Gin and tonic bro'. I really need a breath-a-lyzer (?) installed on my computer.
kind regards...

 

[Grizz]

It's the Gin and tonic bro'. I really need a breath-a-lyzer (?) installed on my computer.
kind regards...

LOL Ok. Been there...done that.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Has it occurred to anyone that a whole fleet of skilled lawyers have probably already come up with a plan that muddies the issue enough that NJ can get around the whole 'struck-work' issue? It sure occurred to me.


Furthermore, you MAY succeed in creating this scab list, but it will fizzle. No airline pilot groups are likely to take it seriously, since we can appreciate the fact that you are asking at-will employees to get FIRED so that you have negotiating leverage.

So, since punishing management is not possible, you will at least get your pound of flesh out of a group of people who now must choose between being a scab or being unemployed.

I defy any of you NJ union trumpet-blowers to tell us what you would do if you worked for a 135 operation and were assigned a NJ trip. Refuse? Lose your job? Then try to find another in the corporate world after looking like a union troublemaker? Sure, you would.

You're upset, scared, and bitter. Fair enough, but to put others in an impossible position is inexcusable.


The best part: How are you going to identify 'struck work'?

Lookouts posted at Signature? You will simply find that the customers will be wheeled in the back way, and you may find that your access to the FBO's inner areas is restricted. YOu think a bunch of rich folks are going to stand for you guys lurking around by the cappucino machine? Right.

You will alienate everyone, but you will at least have the satisfaction of knowing that you were 'right'.

Good luck, you will need as much as you can get.

 

[G4dude]

the following is from asap's web page....

"When NJA pilot salaries are compared to the annual salary survey conducted by the National Business Aviation Association (NBAA), NJA pilots currently earn an average of 50% base salary of other pilots in the United States who fly similar jet aircraft. Under the contract proposal, NJA pilots would have earned only an average of 55% of what other, less productive pilots earn operating the same equipment for other companies. "

first we are your peers, when it's in your best interests... now we're the enemy... first class people, first class...
______________
When I read ASAP, and what union guys at NJA say, I find myself asking the following question: How many years has IBT been "representing" NJA pilots? And how much are the NJA pilots making? See above quote from ASAP's own webpage!
I call on all NJA pilots to fire the union, and deal with management as individuals. If NJA does not respond with a decent offer, reinstate a union if you want. You will be no worse off than you are now, after years and years of union (mis)representation, it seems to me.
By the way. Trying to label most of the GA world as "scabs" is a very bad idea. One has to notice the steady diminution of union positions throughout aviation, as well as in US industry in general, as the unions strangle their own companies. Whenever you read "industry leading contract," be ready to change jobs, as you have just priced your employer out of the market.

 

[Publishers]

Again, any connection between NBAA pilots and pilots at Netjets is like comparing Netjet pilots to Airnet pilots. NBAA pilots are corporate pilots who have a whole different scope of work (for you union guys) than Netjets pilots.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. They work and are available all the time, you X on and X off. They do their flight plans, and, everything else and you do not.

You need to quit trying to act like commercial pilots and put up a plan that deals with you as you and not something you are not. You want a fixed schedule, others to do the planning etc, you want to base where you want to, you want your work rules, then know they come at a price that the NBAA pilot does not have.

Determine what is important to you, QOL or money. Do not be pointing at NBAA and saying we want these rules too.

 

[CatYaaak]

the following is from asap's web page....

"When NJA pilot salaries are compared to the annual salary survey conducted by the National Business Aviation Association (NBAA), NJA pilots currently earn an average of 50% base salary of other pilots in the United States who fly similar jet aircraft. Under the contract proposal, NJA pilots would have earned only an average of 55% of what other, less productive pilots earn operating the same equipment for other companies. "

first we are your peers, when it's in your best interests... now we're the enemy... first class people, first class...
______________
.

Ah, but you are "less productive". Haven't you heard?...ASAP statements are the new barometer by which any corporation measures it's own employee-pilots' "productivity". They must be the experts, or wouldn't be able to draw that conclusion to make the comparison. No doubt, ASAP's leadership has a wealth of experience in estimating such value within large companies, and in corporate aviation itself.

("Gee guys, we fly WAY more than those guys, therefore we're more...um...productive! Just like they gauge it in the airlines")

Of course, although they've convinced themselves and the faithful of this, it remains to be seen if they can convince the ones that actually matter. I surely hope they're not pinning their future on pointing at "NBAA averages" while citing the "flying similar aircraft" thing. He!!, that doesn't even work in the airline industry anymore between airlines in the same industry, let alone trying to connect a dot between for-revenue fracs and corporate flight departments.

But why they want to annoy or make enemies out of other pilot groups?.....who knows. Maybe it's because we're less productive.

 

[h25b]

"...Maybe it's because we're less productive...."


We don't fly Don Imus either...

 

[CatYaaak]

"...Maybe it's because we're less productive...."


We don't fly Don Imus either...

...exactly, because if HE doesn't put the "Important" in V.I.P., then i just don't know who does.

 

[Turbinehead]

Right on

Again, any connection between NBAA pilots and pilots at Netjets is like comparing Netjet pilots to Airnet pilots. NBAA pilots are corporate pilots who have a whole different scope of work (for you union guys) than Netjets pilots.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. They work and are available all the time, you X on and X off. They do their flight plans, and, everything else and you do not.

You need to quit trying to act like commercial pilots and put up a plan that deals with you as you and not something you are not. You want a fixed schedule, others to do the planning etc, you want to base where you want to, you want your work rules, then know they come at a price that the NBAA pilot does not have.

Determine what is important to you, QOL or money. Do not be pointing at NBAA and saying we want these rules too.

Right on Pubs.

More threats out there, more thuggery, more scab talk. More hatred from the NJA boyz. Its disgusting.

We all want to see your numbers improve, but STOP the threats. They hurt your case, brothas and sistas.

See the light.

Dont be a Pus Filled Sack!

 

[h25b]

The Plot Thickens...

It seems the ASAP folks are getting more creative and have edited their claims in comparing themselves to "other" pilots... Now check out what they are claiming... Pay special attention to the bold. They've added "less safe" and "less trained" ... Where in the heck are they getting this from ???

NetJets Pilots work essentially for wages far below market average, often 50% or more below that value. When NJA pilot salaries are compared to the annual salary survey conducted by the National Business Aviation Association (NBAA), NJA pilots currently earn a base salary that is an average of 50% of the base salary of other pilots in the United States who fly similar jet aircraft. Under the failed contract proposal, NJA Pilots would have earned only an average of 55% of what other, less productive, less safe, less trained pilots earn in operating the same equipment for other companies.

Gotta go out now and wreck something.

 

[Some Dude]

h25b, Look at NJA ads and you will see that NJA states that we are the best and the most highly trained pilots in aviation. It's the company that puts out this information not ASAP.

 

[CatYaaak]

h25b, Look at NJA ads and you will see that NJA states that we are the best and the most highly trained pilots in aviation. It's the company that puts out this information not ASAP.

And the rest of us "less safe" and "less trained" pilots stand in awe of your "best and most highly trained-edness".....in all of aviation, I might add. I tell ya, those ASAP guys are geniuses, displaying once again their knowledge of business aviation.

 

[noturgearb!tch]

Sorry Floks, If I may borrow a quote, "You cant SH!t where you sleep."

I support anyone who thinks they can get better QOL with thier current employer. Myself and other pilots within our compnay have gone repeatedly to our employer for better Pay, benies, and time off. And we get the same answer. "Sure I can do that, but I don't know how long the doors will be open."

So you have to ask yourself what do you want. We all know you can't have your cake and eat it too.

now if NJA strikes.

I AM NOT, NOR WILL I EVER BE A SCAB.

I work for a management/135 operator. I have done NJA trips. So yes they do sub business off to us. but wait a minute.

NJA DOES NOT SIGN MY PAY CHECK.
NJA DOES NOT CARE IF/WHEN I TAKE MY FAMILY ON VACATION.
NJA DOES NOT ARRANGE MY HOTEL, RENTAL CARS, AND HOTELS.
NJA DOES NOT GIVE ME AN UGLY, FU*^%$G UGLY TIE.
NJA DOES NOT GIVE ME ANY OPTIONS FOR UPGRADES TO YOUR AIRCRAFT.

Exactaly when/will I cross the picket line if my owner sends his aircraft and crew to fly NJA owner. Last time I checked that was the defination of FAR 135.

I hope you are starting to look for a location to stick that Scab list. I would love to read more of you slander latten comments, but your company (NJA) just called and I have to pick up your slack.

GB

p.s. our owners treat us with respect. yours will too......if you grow up!

 

[Some Dude]

Catyak or whatever your title is. What part of NJA ads do you not understand? ASAP is only repeating what the ads state. It is the belief of NJA that we are the best. Of course their are corporate pilots that are great. ASAP is only using the companies own statements to better our position.

 

[h25b]

h25b, Look at NJA ads and you will see that NJA states that we are the best and the most highly trained pilots in aviation. It's the company that puts out this information not ASAP.

I guess it's good that you take your company's word on at least this topic...



If management says so it must be true... ??? ...I'm starting to get confused ...

I'm still trying to find out where the "less safe" came from. Does this mean you'll use management's tag-lines even if it's B.S. ?