Nea Endorses John Kerry For President?

[Timebuilder]

"What, how many people have lost theirs jobs since Bush took office, ahh, only over 2 million"

Truthfully, that's one of the most ill-informed statements I've ever seen. It presupposes an instantaneous input from the white house after the election.

No, my "umm"ing and "ahh"ing friend, the economic losses are clearly the result of the false bubble that built up during the Clinton administration. This does not mean it was Clinton's fault, but it does mean that what happend after Bush took office was the final chapter of the economy under two terms of Clinton.

Like it or not, business moves in cycles. You can try and stimulate an economy by cutting taxes, and that is already afoot. That's about the best anyone can do.

 

[KickSave]

I don't wonder, when a suburban school pays its administrators like CEO's, and the kids have multiple fields, gyms, and swimming pools. The Janitors make as much as regional captains.

No, I don't wonder.

What suburb, or fantasy land, are you living in? Public schools are constantly starving for money, the TEACHERS don't get paid enough to afford to buy a small apartment in many cities, and your republican leaders want to reduce their spending even further in order to fund more private schools - a regressize tax if there ever was one. Janitors might make as much as regional FO's, but it's hardly a situation where school employees are over paid and underworked, as you want to make it out to be. Swimming pools? Maybe some school somewhere was lucky enough to have one, but many schools can't afford air conditioning in the middle of a hot summer.

You just have a really twisted perception of the way things really are sometimes. But what else would we expect from someone who doesn't think other cutlures and lifestyles could possibly have "equivalent value". How many times do you have to be told, it's NOT your place in this world to determine other cultures value.

 

[Brett Hull]

Thank you KickSave

My wife's a teacher, too.

What you speak is the 100% truth. I stopped counting the number of times she's been upset about her kids not having enough textbooks, the fact that she had to buy copier paper because she's only "allowed" one ream/month, etc., etc....

And Hop-Along Bush wants to take more money away from the system. WTF?

I challenge all of you to go find a public school teacher and ask him/her if they've had to spend any of their own money (of which they make very little) on necessities for their classroom.

I'll answer it for you. It's gonna be 100%.

 

[Timebuilder]

And Hop-Along Bush wants to take more money away from the system. WTF?

I don't know where your school is, but I can tell you this: ALL of the people I know who work as public school teachers live VERY well, and are never having a shortage of paper, books, or anything else.

100%.

I don't doubt the truth of your assertion, Brett, but I think it is atypical in most districts in America.


My district has thousands of poor people and very few people that meet even my meager financial status, and still the kids are getting the OFFER of a good eduaction. Not all students apply themselves, and some parents are undereducated themselves, so it is incumbent upon the inspiration of the teacher and the desire of the student for learning to occur. Maybe our biggest problem in education is the lack of "readiness" on the part of students. Remeber the FOI?


Now, I don't want the federal governement being in the education business in any other capacity that to assure that graduating students and the teachers that teach them meet a reasonable standard of competancy.

It is a mistake for this to be seen as yet another "entitlement" program for the public schools, particularly since so many of them have failed to teach. Just as I pointed out in our (now nonexistant) discussion of drugs in poor neighborhoods, we simply don't care enough to do what needs to be done in public schools. We'd rather just throw money at the problem, and expect, once again, for Big Brother to make it all well for us.

So, while you might see Bush as Hop A Long, and your family supports the draconian PC style of teaching that is the heart of the NEA, I see Bush as rightly making sure that the first responsibility for teaching rests with the districts and the states.

And the desire of the students to apply themselves, and being willing to learn.

 

[Timebuilder]

But what else would we expect from someone who doesn't think other cutlures and lifestyles could possibly have "equivalent value". How many times do you have to be told, it's NOT your place in this world to determine other cultures value.

My angry (and incorrect) friend: it would take someone much more important to me than you to convince me that I do not have all of the tools I need to asess the value of cultures for my self, or that I do not have the right to share my opinon with others. I support your right to your opinion, but I think you would be much happier as a government supported slacker living in France.

You are free here in America to share your opinion. Like the opinon of the Dixie chicks, you must be prepared when someone such as myself decides to disagree with you.

I know several schools that are building brand new gyms and pools right now.

What suburb, or fantasy land, are you living in?

A poor suburb of Philadelphia that has seen all of its industry go to the sun belt and overseas. Now, our town has mostly public assistance and state mental health open-door facilities.

Across the river, in a nicer area, they have THREE swimming pools.

You can say that I have a "twisted perception" of reality, but when you complain that a school can't afford air conditioning, I have to laugh out loud. Where the heck are you? Arizona?

I never attended a class in a room that had air conditioning until I was 45 years old! If this is the standard in most public schools, I must thank you. You have just supported my point.

Oh, and my friend the vice principle? He's in the Bahamas right now. The janitor is going to Disney World.

 

[KickSave]

Govt supported my A$$! YOu're the one who tastes the govt cheese, not me! LOL I've never been on unemployement or welfare for a second, despite not having a full time job since Bush took over the office. Thanks though for offering to help

But anyway, I simply have to question the validity of your facts if you assert that public schools have more money than they know what to do with. That's fantastic that some janitor is going to DisneyWorld, how on earth does that disprove Brett Hulls point that public school class rooms all across the country are under funded for the basic simple necessities like paper and text books? Maybe air conditioning was a bad example, even though I do live in the southwest, where temps routinely reach 110 degrees, and sitting in a crowded classroom without AC is not only not condusive to learning, its dangerous. Of course you didn't need AC in Philly in June... I didn't either growing up outside of DC. But in the Borrego Valley or the Mojave Desert (or Pheonix) its a different situation. How about just using the simple shortage of text books, teachers salary (not enough to afford a 1 br apt in the poorest part of San Diego county), and the rampant reduction in virtually every program there is. This happens ALL over the country, but somehow in your perfect little world, the local schools are over flowing with money and building swimming pools! That's truly amazing. Wonder how they can do that while the rest of the school world is struggling to maintain safe clean conditions all over the country. Go do some research.... oh yeah, I forgot, you never look outside your own backyard when trying to see what's REALLY happening on this planet. Do you really know how those pools are being funded? Why don't you go to some teachers message boards (like this one, for teachers) and see what the people on the front line are really dealing with, before you go assuming every school district in the country is over funded. That's as ignorant as anything I've heard yet.

By the way, thanks much for defending my right to free speech and my opinion. Lovely how we are free to flip flop on liberty, when in one thread you want to strip it away when it suits you, but here in this one, you stand up for your rights... It is truly ala carte with you, isn't it?

 

[KickSave]

By the way, I'm tired of this and the other policital debates we've been having. I come to THIS board to learn about aviation issues. Not to wage a philosophical battle of ideologies. So along those lines, I will not respond to your impending reply here. You can have the last word, once again, and I will not engage you in any more of these such debates with you - we just disagree on too many things. But I would ask that in reponse to my offer of cease fire, that you not call out my name or position on other threads, ones which I am not even involved in, as you did on this one. I'd rather not use the ignore function, as I figure you occasionally have aviation related posts that are worthy of my time. But if you will let these type of debates drop, I will also. As usual, you're free to post your opinion on anything you want... just leave me out of it from now on.. mmmkay? thanks.

 

[surfnole]

He's some flamebait for you: Condoleeza Rice in 2008, beating Hillary by seven states.

Wouln't that be hilarious if the Republicans provided the first black and/or woman president while the party of the blacks and women failed. If course, if the president was black, he/she would be accused of being an uncle Tom sell out, like when Harry Belafonte accused Colin Powell of being a slave that moved up to the master's house.

Green Bay is the 5th largest school district in WI, and they spend almost the most of any district in NE WI. They spend about $10K per kid/per year. Our friends live in London, and their kids attend a NON-boarding private American school. It costs about $27K. Most of the top boarding schools on the East Coast charge $25K and up. You can even spend that much on preschool.

I live in Florida, and I can't think of a local private school that costs 10K per year. Most go for 6K to 8K, and Catholic schools are much less. Wisconson can't be that much more expensive.

The average teacher is NOT paid enough, believe me

Neither is the average airline pilot. Like its been stated here so many times before, its all supply and demand. By the way, to compare teachers salaries to other salaries, you need to add 20 to 30% due to all the vacation time they get.

Whats ridiculous is that teachers (at least in FLA), need a master's degree in education to teach. They don' t however need to know the subject they teach.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

But I thought all the state lotteries were supposed to solve all the education funding woes !!!???

 

[Timebuilder]

Govt supported my A$$! YOu're the one who tastes the govt cheese, not me! LOL I've never been on unemployement or welfare for a second, despite not having a full time job since Bush took over the office. Thanks though for offering to help

I can't tell you that the government supports my a$$, but I CAN tell you that in my state, I'm receiving money that my employer and I pay into the fund, so I am getting money back that was a tax on my EARNINGS. Think of it as a tax refund for furloughees. The reference to government cheese under my avatar is sarcasm.

I have paid into the system for many, many years supporting the basic needs of others, including a good many pilots, I'd wager.

But anyway, I simply have to question the validity of your facts if you assert that public schools have more money than they know what to do with. That's fantastic that some janitor is going to DisneyWorld, how on earth does that disprove Brett Hulls point that public school class rooms all across the country are under funded for the basic simple necessities like paper and text books?

Check my post again, and you will find that I explained that my schools have no such shortages. The public schools don't have more money than they know what to do with, they know EXACTLY what to do with it. Towel, anyone?

But in the Borrego Valley or the Mojave Desert (or Pheonix) its a different situation.

I agree with you. That's why I asked about Arizona. Certainly, that IS a worthy exception.

How about just using the simple shortage of text books, teachers salary (not enough to afford a 1 br apt in the poorest part of San Diego county), and the rampant reduction in virtually every program there is. This happens ALL over the country, but somehow in your perfect little world, the local schools are over flowing with money and building swimming pools! That's truly amazing.

That's why we didn't want to give up our governor, Tom Ridge. Now, we have tax-and-spend Ed Rendell. Lord, help us. Maybe things will improve with the ouster of Gray Davis.

Wonder how they can do that while the rest of the school world is struggling to maintain safe clean conditions all over the country. Go do some research.... oh yeah, I forgot, you never look outside your own backyard when trying to see what's REALLY happening on this planet.

Whenever you are wrong about something, you start to show a nasty streak. My own little world goes as far as China, where my church supports missionaries, along with some 50 other countries. They all have schools. I personally know enough teachers to start my own private school, and if I had the money, I'd do it. I don't need a teachers message board to help me, but thanks for the advice. My private school friends often make LESS than the public school teachers, since the small private school isn't eligible for the school lunch or breakfast programs (which I fund through my taxes) or the other special funding programs, or the teachers union which helps protect substandard teachers from dismissal.

...before you go assuming every school district in the country is over funded. That's as ignorant as anything I've heard yet.

Let me explain to you what ignorance is. Ignorance is being the leading edge of the PC and revisionist history movement, like the NEA. Ignorance is pushing students out the door through social promotion, unable to read their own diploma. Ignorance is what parents experince as schools teach their 13 year old children about the most pleasurable sex positions in a "health" class, without their knowlege. Ignorance is being unaccountable to anyone, and thinking that parents all over the nation will allow this to continue. Ignorance is the idea that the tax base can provide more and more money, while the janitor at my school goes to disney world. Is my friend the vice principal overpaid? Let me tell you a little secret. He said I should run as fast as I can and get my teaching certificate, because this is the best gig on earth, and I was a fool to put up with the pecadillos of aviation when I could do half the work and get every summer off.

He was only half kidding.

Lovely how we are free to flip flop on liberty, when in one thread you want to strip it away when it suits you, but here in this one, you stand up for your rights... It is truly ala carte with you, isn't it?

A la carte? Ha! I knew it! You ARE French!

Just kidding.

You say I want to strip it away when it suits me. That is what is called an opinion. An opinion that you have a right to, but is yet wrong, in that it seeks to mischaracterize my position. I used to do that a LOT when I was a Democrat. It was a marginally effective technique, as most people just let it whizz right by. Not me.

I was making an observation about the necessity for for the strongest action available under our law to deal with the drug emergency in many parts of the country, particularly in the LA and New York areas. Now you may disagree, but this action is provided for and is sometimes necessary. It does not "strip away" rights, it suspends some that allow the poisoning to continue unabated. It reinforces other rights, such as the right of those living in those neighborhoods to be safe in their homes and streets from drive by shootings and assinations, along with the victimization of the weakest among us. In other words, the rights of law abiding citizens are ALWAYS subordinate to the rights of criminals. I disagree with that idea. The residents who work hard have a greater right to safety and happiness than the criminals do to drive about without fear of intervention. Remember, the founders predicated our society on the idea that we are a moral people. Lacking that, we descend into anarchy. Some people think that we should just stand by and do what we have been doing. Clearly another method is being called for. Also as I said, this call will go unanswered by the apologists and the left, who think that this activity is just fine, as long as it isn't in their neighborhood.

But I would ask that in reponse to my offer of cease fire, that you not call out my name or position on other threads, ones which I am not even involved in, as you did on this one. I'd rather not use the ignore function, as I figure you occasionally have aviation related posts that are worthy of my time.

On the other hand, I will stand by everything I say, and you may quote me anywhere and everywhere. I guess I'm not familiar enough with the system used at the NY Times, where people can lift passages and create reality however they like. I'm just too used to doing it the right way. No pun intended.

Gee, just when I was enjoying doing something beside faxing resumes to charter companies...