NDB Approaches / Holds on Mesaba interview?

BoDEAN

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This true? If so, have to hit the sim ASAP.
 

xjcaptain

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From what I've heard, it's true. If it's a problem, I most certainly would get it sorted out prior to the sim or prior to line ops in the UP if you are hired and awarded the SF340! Gotta love those NDB approaches to mins in blizzards and thunderstorms.
 

turbodriver

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You people can't do a NDB hold?

What's wrong with you? You don't deserve to fly that jet if you can't.
 

strega7

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Say Goodbye to Hundreds of NDB Approaches
Starting today, 216 NDB approaches will be decommissioned. Although the FAA has yet to actually switch them off the air, the decommissioned NDB stations will no longer be flight-checked, maintained, approved for use or shown on updated charts, according to AOPA. “The FAA decommissioned them after careful coordination with AOPA and the aviation community,” said Randy Kenagy, AOPA director of advanced technology. This means that the FAA “can stop spending money on something few use and will have more funds for GPS-WAAS approaches to general aviation airports,” he added. The FAA has proposed decommissioning a total of 479 NDB procedures, with the final set of procedures scheduled to be eliminated in September. AOPA told the agency that 60 NDB approaches should be saved because they provided the lowest minimums. However, the FAA retained just 35 of the 60, according to AOPA.

Very soon these darn things will be a thing of the past!
 

WIPilot

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turbodriver said:
You people can't do a NDB hold?

What's wrong with you? You don't deserve to fly that jet if you can't.
Some Majors arent even allowed to fly NDP approaches, or do NDB holds anymore...but yes true that is a part of basic instrument flying
 

pacsky72

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AmEagle just stopped doing them in the sim during training and for all PC checks. They're being pulled out of our jepps with each revision.
 

EatSleepFly

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BoDEAN said:
This true? If so, have to hit the sim ASAP.
I interviewed there last February and was asked to do an NDB hold at the outer marker on an ILS on the final approach course. So yes, there was an "NDB Hold," but think about it...
 

WIPilot

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EatSleepFly said:
I interviewed there last February and was asked to do an NDB hold at the outer marker on an ILS on the final approach course. So yes, there was an "NDB Hold," but think about it...
Just dont make it obvious that you have the ILS frq on your Nav radio ;)
 

Mesabi Miner

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I noticed quite a few NDB approaches being pulled from our last Jepps revision as well. Still doing them in the sim for PCs and RFTs however.

MM
 

Mysteryofflight

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BoDEAN said:
This true? If so, have to hit the sim ASAP.
I just finished training at Mesaba and had the opportunity to perform NDB holds in the interview, as well as in the simulator. The simulator schedule also leaves time for NDB approaches if your sim instructor wishes to have you practice them ( and you will ). The checkride ( or PC ) will entail at least one non-precision approach in some cases it will be single engine. Though it may be a LOC only approach it would be in your best interest to practice the NDB holds and approaches as well as the dreaded ARC to LOC approach or ILS. Though we don't perform these approaches often, or perhaps BECAUSE we don't perform them often enough, it would be in your best interest to get all the practice you can. When you get to the line it becomes a gamble when you might be asked to do one, and you must be prepared. If you are coming from flight instructing, then it shouldn't be very difficult. Good luck! You are about to learn the sad news that the average ground school instructor has never flown the aircraft they are training you to fly, so STUDY HARD and ask for help from the captains in your class, they will be your saving grace!
 

fly4ever

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I've been at Mesaba for over 4 years and on my last PC I got to do the NDB approach and the captain did a LOC BC. Expect it in every training/checking event. As for NDBs being decommissioned, until we have gps in our Saabs(probably never) we will most likely always have a handful of airports where the NDB approach is an option. Especially in Canada.

Welcome aboard for all of our newhires!
 
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sf3boy

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Did one on my type and did one on the last PC. Mesaba is jumping into the 1990's. We now bid online and get our per diem direct deposited.
 

Workin'Stiff

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I've heard that the sim that we are using for the evals was bought from the flight school where I used to work.... Have fun with that thing... It's a true piece of work...
 

Regional4life

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Mysteryofflight said:
You are about to learn the sad news that the average ground school instructor has never flown the aircraft they are training you to fly, so STUDY HARD and ask for help from the captains in your class, they will be your saving grace!
Welcome to generally most airlines. Mesaba is no different and they've been doing that for quite a while. Besides, ground instructors aren't teaching you line flying, they are teaching you the basics of how a system works. And how many failures did you have in class? (Yes, there is benefit to having a line pilot teach systems, I know. But, never gonna happen in today's penny pinching.)
 

sf3boy

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Exactamundo.

Even the head training dept guys at XJ told us in my last class that they were looking to hire all outside intructors that have zero experience because they are willing to do it for way cheap.

Remember, at XJ, $afety first.
 

noonan

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gimme a break.
There is more to getting ground instructors than $.

When brought in for an interview, virtually no line pilot wants to teach ground school. They all want to teach in the sim.

It takes about 6 months to fully train and turn out a proficient ground instructor. Just about that time a line pilot wants to go back to the line and the department has to start over. Not a very good way to keep a stable department.

Everybody is complaining about losing vacations, but taking 3-5 more line pilots off line only makes the vacation problem worse and more junior manning. I for one can do without any more of that.

You might say "yeah, but they have line experience". They do, and that is a huge advantage to eveyone in the class, but what about the instructors that don't really want to teach, they just want the extra days off, $, and be home every night. (Think for a minute. You know who they are.) Not to mention the ones who have bad attitudes and are bitchin' all class.

There have been a few excellent line pilot ground instructors. They made the training event not only fun, but one of the best experiences in my aviation career. However that doesn't seem to be the rule.

The department has learned that for the best over-all return it really does make sense to have as little line-pilot involvment in ground schools as possible.
 

sf3boy

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After covering the fuel system in the Saab in less than 20 minutes one day, I asked if we were to talk about the negative g canister, hopper tanks, fuel transfer, anything that is more than the limitations in Chapter 1.......the answer was I don't think so??? Meanwhile the new hires are frantically flipping through the Saab System book looking up these new terms.

Read the slide. Questions?.....refer to the slide. Next topic is...

It is, for sure, about cost for the airline why we don't have "qualified" people teaching ground schools. I would do it if they paid me, but they won't, so I won't. It is a vicious cycle.
 
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